Melee Cipher vs Melee Ranger w/Wolf

[Niteshade]

I'm having an impossible time trying to decide between making my first character a melee Cipher or a Melee Ranger w/wolf companion.
Ive already got it planned on the other types of characters I plan to create to fill out my party alongside the 2 in game companions i'm likely going to keep around.

Has anyone who's played both a Cipher and Ranger in melee have any pointers they could offer?
(Note: I have been browsing thru the digital copy of the strategy guide as well)

Any pointers/Tips would be appreciated ^_^

[Mittens the Maleficent]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

It will suck losing out on the added content Id get by using the npc companions, but being able to fully customize and control the appearance and skills of my entire party is a fun thing to. I'm big on my customization in all aspects. Time to see if the first test setup of attributes i went with will work lol.

hit me up if you want some help understanding the mechanics

[Niteshade]

Furiousavage eredeti hozzászólása:

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

It will suck losing out on the added content Id get by using the npc companions, but being able to fully customize and control the appearance and skills of my entire party is a fun thing to. I'm big on my customization in all aspects. Time to see if the first test setup of attributes i went with will work lol.

hit me up if you want some help understanding the mechanics

Well i know where the "Ideal" places are for stats, but from this thread ive gathered theres enough flexibility for me to play around with attribute placement, so i ended up with a set that probably wont be the "best" but it could serve to be fun and offer some challenge as i hope to craft a Melee fighter that augments his attack/defense with his powers enough to go 1on1 with an enemy during a large battle w/o support.

[Itharius]

Melee cipher will probably work better. Melee ranger can work, but it's wonky and you won't have access to several of your class abilities.

[Mittens the Maleficent]

The 2014 NBA Random Draft eredeti hozzászólása:

Melee cipher will probably work better. Melee ranger can work, but it's wonky and you won't have access to several of your class abilities.

i use a ranged cipher with a x-bow, the thing is that with that whip they start off using when combat starts it builds cipher focus acording to the ammount of damage the attack does. so with a big heavy weapon you build a lot of focus and can start casting spells. not saying my way is correct btw. just showing you how i play it is all.

[Niteshade]

So far the Cipher setup i went with attribute wise seems to be alright(was exploring the old temple ruins under Guilded Vale) He did get taken out a few times, but I think I would credit that more toward my not being used to the combat system then the stats, as other times he was able to hold is own when directly engaged with a target w/o support.

If i'm right at an older save from that test run at lvl 2, my Cipher had
13 Might
10 Con
15 Dex
13 Perc
15 Int
12 Resolve
and went with the Deadfire Archipelago and was Meadowfolk. I mainly hit 15 dex due to being curious what the scripted event option would be in the intro/tutorial portion where I could let him get free on his own, throw my weapon or the dex option. I hadnt realized when selecting the throw weapon part i literally throw away the weapon lol ( but i loved the fact it did exactly that) Makes me think I shouldve had a ranged weapon equipped.

I'm debating tweaking the attributes a bit and moving dex in favor of Might and having might near 15 with 13 dex while still keeping the Deadfire Archipelago background.

Also having a tough time deciding whether to primarily go with a 2h sword, single 1h sword for accuracy or dual wielding 2 swords or sword+Dagger

[Findanniin]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

Also having a tough time deciding whether to primarily go with a 2h sword, single 1h sword for accuracy or dual wielding 2 swords or sword+Dagger

With Cipher, your damage / hits are your focus.

I couldn't recommend single hand duelist for the build.

I'd say either go 2-handed for damage and pick up the extra 20% psychic whip damage, or dual wield 2 fast weapons (I use 2 stillettos, since the +6 accuracy from Ruffian also affects the blunderbuss and the DR ignored is nice) with the talent that gives +2 focus / hit.

[Niteshade]

Hmm, may be right. I think the single hand duelist idea was more if I had went with a melee ranger to keep him lighter and more mobile.
I'll have to pick up weapons to test out a single 2-handed sword and compare with dual weapons. I was planning on grabbing the whip talent first that upped damage regardless.

[Revolucas]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

Furiousavage eredeti hozzászólása:

hit me up if you want some help understanding the mechanics

Well i know where the "Ideal" places are for stats, but from this thread ive gathered theres enough flexibility for me to play around with attribute placement, so i ended up with a set that probably wont be the "best" but it could serve to be fun and offer some challenge as i hope to craft a Melee fighter that augments his attack/defense with his powers enough to go 1on1 with an enemy during a large battle w/o support.

Recruit them and put them in your strong hold. You can easily switch out party members, and even use them to do strong hold event tasks. Pull them out to do their quests. Like for example take Kana out when you do Od Nua or Eder when you go to Defiance Bay.

[Frank Wisdom]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

So far the Cipher setup i went with attribute wise seems to be alright(was exploring the old temple ruins under Guilded Vale) He did get taken out a few times, but I think I would credit that more toward my not being used to the combat system then the stats, as other times he was able to hold is own when directly engaged with a target w/o support.

If i'm right at an older save from that test run at lvl 2, my Cipher had
13 Might
10 Con
15 Dex
13 Perc
15 Int
12 Resolve
and went with the Deadfire Archipelago and was Meadowfolk. I mainly hit 15 dex due to being curious what the scripted event option would be in the intro/tutorial portion where I could let him get free on his own, throw my weapon or the dex option. I hadnt realized when selecting the throw weapon part i literally throw away the weapon lol ( but i loved the fact it did exactly that) Makes me think I shouldve had a ranged weapon equipped.

I'm debating tweaking the attributes a bit and moving dex in favor of Might and having might near 15 with 13 dex while still keeping the Deadfire Archipelago background.

Also having a tough time deciding whether to primarily go with a 2h sword, single 1h sword for accuracy or dual wielding 2 swords or sword+Dagger

Given your low Dex I wouldn't go two weapon since you give the enemy a chance to mitigate two lower damage dealing hits rather than one powerful hit. The increased speed is practical when combined with high Dex in order To maximize dps and power gain. I use an Estoc as you already know in order to gain a passive DR bypass and to also deal hard damage with every hit. My stats with items are off the charts and on hard I've been decimating pretty much everything in my path. You also get two really powerful Estocs in the game. Overall I find a two-handed weapon synergizes best with high Dex and average strength. With equipment my Cipher has

Mig 16
Con 11
Dex 19
Per 10
Int 20
Res 13

I could bump my perception to 13 but I'm using the item for grieving mother, though playing with two ciphers is way to easy at this point. Anyways the point is in terms of best choice for dps then two handed, the accuracy for 1 handed weapon isn't worthwhile. Again though it's about preferences at the end of the day!

[Niteshade]

๖ۣۜRevolucas eredeti hozzászólása:

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

Well i know where the "Ideal" places are for stats, but from this thread ive gathered theres enough flexibility for me to play around with attribute placement, so i ended up with a set that probably wont be the "best" but it could serve to be fun and offer some challenge as i hope to craft a Melee fighter that augments his attack/defense with his powers enough to go 1on1 with an enemy during a large battle w/o support.

Recruit them and put them in your strong hold. You can easily switch out party members, and even use them to do strong hold event tasks. Pull them out to do their quests. Like for example take Kana out when you do Od Nua or Eder when you go to Defiance Bay.

I actually found myself wondering about this at work today, if they counted toward the npcs at the stronghold I could use for tasks and such and still bring them in the party for THEIR quests but then switch back to my full custom party if I chose too ( Thanks for clarifying )

@Frank

So even with a 2handed sword focus you would still favor Dex a bit more over Might?( some of my stats were semi placed with a personal char rp in mind lol so id rather not drop the perception but may consider it )

Will there be plenty of various accessories and such with attribute bonuses to fine tune my Cipher down the road?

[MrFrengLitch]

Meh, rangers are quite bad. I have Sagani in my party just for the optional companion quest, but otherwise rangers are really bad. Go rogue instead and use arbalest. They're x10 stronger AND you won't be annoyed by your pet dying over and over. Especially on PotD.

So go cipher! And if you do melee, go dual weild or two handed weapons. This way you'll build up focus fast.

* And keep a back up set (shield+hatchet), just in case you need deflection.

[Frank Wisdom]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

@Frank

So even with a 2handed sword focus you would still favor Dex a bit more over Might?( some of my stats were semi placed with a personal char rp in mind lol so id rather not drop the perception but may consider it )

Will there be plenty of various accessories and such with attribute bonuses to fine tune my Cipher down the road?

Yes there is plenty of equipment to go around, you'll also learn what's worth investing in and what isn't. That's why I don't really care about my perception rating. Also I keep in mind what my party needs rather than max out my main character for everything, though I do always favor him when getting new poweful items. If you want perception for RP purposes, I totally understand that, though I wouldn't advise spreading your attributes to thin. Also Intelligence is extremely important to your class when making a Melee cipher. Since most of your abilities are cc, perception and resolve is much less important, because things won't have time to hit you after you spam disabling abilities. Speed and maximum damage output is what you want, especially when dealing with many enemies. Using gear can also help round off or maximize your character depending on playstyle. Hope that helps Niteshade

[Mittens the Maleficent]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

So far the Cipher setup i went with attribute wise seems to be alright(was exploring the old temple ruins under Guilded Vale) He did get taken out a few times, but I think I would credit that more toward my not being used to the combat system then the stats, as other times he was able to hold is own when directly engaged with a target w/o support.

If i'm right at an older save from that test run at lvl 2, my Cipher had
13 Might
10 Con
15 Dex
13 Perc
15 Int
12 Resolve
and went with the Deadfire Archipelago and was Meadowfolk. I mainly hit 15 dex due to being curious what the scripted event option would be in the intro/tutorial portion where I could let him get free on his own, throw my weapon or the dex option. I hadnt realized when selecting the throw weapon part i literally throw away the weapon lol ( but i loved the fact it did exactly that) Makes me think I shouldve had a ranged weapon equipped.

I'm debating tweaking the attributes a bit and moving dex in favor of Might and having might near 15 with 13 dex while still keeping the Deadfire Archipelago background.

Also having a tough time deciding whether to primarily go with a 2h sword, single 1h sword for accuracy or dual wielding 2 swords or sword+Dagger

if your going melee cipher that con is far far to low. he is going to be chewed up. thouse stats look more like a soupport caster class then somene going in with damage.

[Niteshade]

Frank Wisdom eredeti hozzászólása:

@Frank

So even with a 2handed sword focus you would still favor Dex a bit more over Might?( some of my stats were semi placed with a personal char rp in mind lol so id rather not drop the perception but may consider it )

Will there be plenty of various accessories and such with attribute bonuses to fine tune my Cipher down the road?

Yes there is plenty of equipment to go around, you'll also learn what's worth investing in and what isn't. That's why I don't really care about my perception rating. Also I keep in mind what my party needs rather than max out my main character for everything, though I do always favor him when getting to poweful items. If you want perception for RP purposes, I totally understand that, though I wouldn't advise spreading your attributes to thin. Also Intelligence is extremely important to your class when making a Melee cipher. Since most of your abilities are cc, perception and resolve is much less important, because things won't have time to hit you after you spam disabling abilities. Speed and maximum damage output is what you want, especially when dealing with many enemies. Using gear can also help round off or maximize your character depending on playstyle. Hope that helps Niteshade [/quote]

Good to know with equipment, like you I of course always find myself favoring my main character, and my custom party members will follow afterwards. With the party setup I'm planning to include a Ranger, Hvy armor chanter to work with a tank fighter and a priest that i'm semi tempted to try and make more of a battle priest/cleric type. I was a bit unsure for my final custom party member but feel either a Druid or Wizard could be useful

Edit: @Frank, your original base stats had CON low right? Does your Cipher get directly engaged often and do you have issues staying alive or are you able to still compensate for the slight "squishy" Con stat thru your debuff/buff abilities?

[Frank Wisdom]

Niteshade eredeti hozzászólása:

Edit: @Frank, your original base stats had CON low right? Does your Cipher get directly engaged often and do you have issues staying alive or are you able to still compensate for the slight "squishy" Con stat thru your debuff/buff abilities?

Strategically speaking you should never have your cipher get into a situation where he will be hit. It will happen given you are a Melee cipher but shouldn't happen often. With that said I've often tested my Cipher against a couple of enemies solo. I am squishier than a fighter obviously but with my Cipher abilities and equipment I am extremely survivable. Also constitution is completely useless for a cipher because of percentile based progression and base Stat correlation. Basically a cipher starts with very low health and endurance while a fighter stars with very high base health and endurance.

Each point in constitution will add 3% over the base total. If the base total is much lower, than the overall percentage is much less significant than getting high Con for a fighter having much higher end base health and endurance... So it is much wiser to invest in other areas. If you want your Cipher to be more resistant and you want to synergize well with an Estoc for example, which has high interrupt, go with perception, which increases interrupt, deflection and reflex. Also note that con enhances the fortitude Def which is used much less than deflection and reflex in fights ( in my experience with the game), which are the defensive stats you want to invest in the most for resistance and survivability (deflection against Melee weapons, reflex against most spells and aoe's). Fortitude is used mostly to defend against poison and debilitating effects which are less common. If you have high Intelligence to boot, then you'll be set for your will defense and your cipher powers.

Does that answer your questions?