Cipher builds advices?! :)

[Hariwulf]

Making a Cipher, but I cannot remember the last time I rolled a psion.
Also, I was thinking to use a Claymore and to switch to some ranged weapon as needed.
I'm also trying to be some sort of rogueish...for that the PER is so high.

MIG 14
CON 8
DEX 16
PER 11
INT 18
RES 11

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Hariwulf:

Making a Cipher, but I cannot remember the last time I rolled a psion.
Also, I was thinking to use a Claymore and to switch to some ranged weapon as needed.
I'm also trying to be some sort of rogueish...for that the PER is so high.

MIG 14
CON 8
DEX 16
PER 11
INT 18
RES 11

Perception has nothing to do with finding hidden things, that's based purely on the Mechanics skill.

That build is fine if you're not too interested in powergaming. For a min/max build I'd go with 18/6/18/10/18/10

Ranged cipher is easier for beginners, go with Wood Elf if you do that. If you want to do melee or both, then you probably want Hearth Orlan or Death Godlike.

[Hariwulf]

Best starting abilities?

[amungus]

Originally posted by Hariwulf:

Best starting abilities?

I went with "Tenuous Grasp" and "Whisper of Treason", I think you can swap the "grasp" with something, but mind control that "whisper" gives for me was very useful.
It depends on what you want to build, cipher is quite flexible.

[PoohPus]

From a mechanics standpoint it pays off to either min or max PER and RES. If you max them you get a cipher that can be somewhat survivable when he gets targeted. Anything less and he will consistantly die in one or two hits. I would advice you to decide beforhand wheter you want a main that can survive being targeted or if you want to depend on positioning to avoid being targeted altogether.

If you choose the latter I would advice 3 PER, RES and CON, max MIG, DEX and INT, and no armor. You'll depend mostly on ranged weapons and for any melee you need a ranged melee weapon like a Pike or Quarterstaff. This is the most effective Cipher.

Alternatively a survivable Cipher needs max PER, RES and CON at the expense of the stats that make it effective. You also need to wear heavy armor and get draining whip and a blunderbuss as soon as you can.

The reason for this is that your low DR low Deflection Cipher is a primary target for the AI. The AI will shoot at him, teleport towards him, and even break engagement with your tank to get at him. A crit or a good hit will one-shot him. So to consistantly keep him alive you must choose between a very active positioning play, or making him able to survive melee even when you plan for the companions to protect him. In any case, you need companion backup. Cipher does not make a good solo-build.

Whisper of Treason is very powerful, but extremely slow and you may inadvertantly proceed to take an action that immideately break the charm. I don't know the conditions for this to happen, just that it does.

In my experience the fast powers are the most useful ones in most situations. The blind-foeaoe power on spell-lv 1 is important to grab either on character creation or on the first level-up. The Paralyse/stuck-foeaoe on spell-lv 2 is also important.

[Shinae]

I didn't personally take mind control stuff. Cast time is very high. I took the shock thing that targers ally and does AoE around him. Very good at the beginning of the game.

You want INT, DEX and MIG. If you plan to melee like I do, take some extra PER and RES for deflection. I didn't max them and by sending in tanks first my Cipher survives well enough on hard difficulty.

[feliscon]

Best to skip Whisper of Treason and wait for the later Dominate power if you want mind control stuff. Eyebite is probably the best lvl 1 power.

[Nalkor]

Originally posted by feliscon:

Originally posted by Hariwulf:

Making a Cipher, but I cannot remember the last time I rolled a psion.
Also, I was thinking to use a Claymore and to switch to some ranged weapon as needed.
I'm also trying to be some sort of rogueish...for that the PER is so high.

MIG 14
CON 8
DEX 16
PER 11
INT 18
RES 11

Perception has nothing to do with finding hidden things, that's based purely on the Mechanics skill.

That build is fine if you're not too interested in powergaming. For a min/max build I'd go with 18/6/18/10/18/10

Ranged cipher is easier for beginners, go with Wood Elf if you do that. If you want to do melee or both, then you probably want Hearth Orlan or Death Godlike.

Out of curiosity, why would you say Death Godlike? Is it because of their passive towards enemies at low stamina/health?

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Nalkor:

Originally posted by feliscon:

Perception has nothing to do with finding hidden things, that's based purely on the Mechanics skill.

That build is fine if you're not too interested in powergaming. For a min/max build I'd go with 18/6/18/10/18/10

Ranged cipher is easier for beginners, go with Wood Elf if you do that. If you want to do melee or both, then you probably want Hearth Orlan or Death Godlike.

Out of curiosity, why would you say Death Godlike? Is it because of their passive towards enemies at low stamina/health?

Yep, Ciphers are similar to Rogues in that they're very good at single target damage (but not quite as good as a Rogue since that's their whole thing) but then they get the powers as well. The faster you do damage, the faster you gain focus, the more you can use your powers.

[ciego42]

Originally posted by Hariwulf:

Best starting abilities?

Eyestrike (the blind) and either the targeted friendly AoE (sorry forget it's name) or the cone mindblast which can knock enemies prone.

I like the debuff/stun spells myself. I play as a melee cipher on hard so if the target is debuffed you can get away with light or no armor.

And as someone said above the playstyle is more rogue like than say a barbarian or monk.

[Nalkor]

Originally posted by feliscon:

Originally posted by Nalkor:

Out of curiosity, why would you say Death Godlike? Is it because of their passive towards enemies at low stamina/health?

Yep, Ciphers are similar to Rogues in that they're very good at single target damage (but not quite as good as a Rogue since that's their whole thing) but then they get the powers as well. The faster you do damage, the faster you gain focus, the more you can use your powers.

Would you recommend a ranged Cipher over a melee one? That sounds like it would make dungeon fights easier by having Eder block a doorway while the ranged party members do their thing from the safety of behind the tank.

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Nalkor:

Originally posted by feliscon:

Yep, Ciphers are similar to Rogues in that they're very good at single target damage (but not quite as good as a Rogue since that's their whole thing) but then they get the powers as well. The faster you do damage, the faster you gain focus, the more you can use your powers.

Would you recommend a ranged Cipher over a melee one? That sounds like it would make dungeon fights easier by having Eder block a doorway while the ranged party members do their thing from the safety of behind the tank.

I think that you can build both to be equally effective, but I definately think that a ranged cipher is easier/requires less attention and micromanagment; so I'd recommend a ranged cipher if you haven't played one before.

If you do go ranged, definately recommend Wood Elf fo race, the Acc bonus applies to all powers as well as your weapon.

[Nalkor]

Originally posted by feliscon:

Originally posted by Nalkor:

Would you recommend a ranged Cipher over a melee one? That sounds like it would make dungeon fights easier by having Eder block a doorway while the ranged party members do their thing from the safety of behind the tank.

I think that you can build both to be equally effective, but I definately think that a ranged cipher is easier/requires less attention and micromanagment; so I'd recommend a ranged cipher if you haven't played one before.

If you do go ranged, definately recommend Wood Elf fo race, the Acc bonus applies to all powers as well as your weapon.

So wood elf for ranged Cipher, and Death Godlike for Melee Cipher?

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Nalkor:

Originally posted by feliscon:

I think that you can build both to be equally effective, but I definately think that a ranged cipher is easier/requires less attention and micromanagment; so I'd recommend a ranged cipher if you haven't played one before.

If you do go ranged, definately recommend Wood Elf fo race, the Acc bonus applies to all powers as well as your weapon.

So wood elf for ranged Cipher, and Death Godlike for Melee Cipher?

Yeah, Hearth Orlan is reasonable for melee Cipher too.

[Hariwulf]

So many interesting hints...thanks to everybody! :)

[fieminamor]

I realize this is an old thread, just started playing the game. Why is INT considered so important to people for ciphers? As noted, they are primarily single-target, so it seems that other stats are more important.