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From time to time a complainer posts about it but is far away from unlocking the other 98% of this game's achievements. Those achievements include some rare ones that are harder to unlock than the kickstarter achievement, since they are performance based and require sufficient motivation, passion and interest in playing the game. There are also some players, who can do wonders because they are skilled enough as to kite around enemies for an hour while facing defeat more than a few times. Simply following walkthroughs won't suffice.
Removing the achievement retroactively would be an act of fraud. Supporters of the crowdfunding campaign, who would contribute at least 25 USD, had been promised this special achievement as a reward. Explicitly. That has been tempting enough for many to become a backer. --> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity
After reading your comment, I must confess that you haven't really addressed the issues that I've presented. I will try to explain to you why you haven't.
Firstly, I will start with your last paragraph.
Interestingly, I've never saw or stumbled upon a Kickstarter achievement that directly ties in with the Steam achievement. I've found your remark about removing such an achievement (or altering it) somewhat biased, as you've stated "explicitly". If we're looking at it concisely, the achievement doesn't mention "Steam achievement" anywhere on the Official Kickstarter Pledge Page
Please, take time to review it. I'm pretty sure that you will find that this is true. The page mentions solely in-game achievement, meaning that you get an item and a "thank you" within the game's menu, once you log in and connect via your Obsidian account.
As I mentioned before, it is a common practice to have the official forum's badges for pledging during the crowdfunding campaign, and this is the case with the game. You can see the accounts of various people on the official Obsidian's forum, and such badges are completely valid and normal.
Nowhere is stated that it is explicitly for the Steam Achievement, but in-game achievement followed by an item.
In a very slight chance that I'm wrong with this, I would ask you to point where it specifically and explicitly says that it is a Steam Achievement exclusive which in turn made people to buy it? Thanks.
Now, I will move on to what you've written here, in the hope of finding that your comment does provide some necessary insight regarding the issue.
Although I've covered this before, I have to stress out that having a Paywall behind the Steam Achievement is an odd reward. The irony is that It is something worthy of game companies like EA or Ubisoft, who love to do microtransactions for special gifts. The Kickstarter should be a complete opposite to the greedy publisher's demands.
It shouldn't be there in the first place. I have never heard of such a Steam achievement before that has 0% anything to do with the gameplay itself. If you can't see why this is odd, then we've different viewpoints on what Steam Achievement is and what it should be. Unfortunately.
Firstly, not unlocking any sort of an achievement doesn't deter a valid and normal questions that deals with the 100% completion that's, I'll remind you, unobtainable by anyone who wasn't directly funding it under a very specific scenario away from the platform itself.
What you're practicing there is a type of a logical fallacy as you're trying to put the blame on the Player, rather than on the odd developer's choice. The Player is the one who should, with their skill and gameplay, obtain the achievements at their own pace based on their own time invested, and not pay for unlocking it. Paying for an achievement is ridiculous!
In other words, the achievement is behind a paywall, which is a practice that's heavily frowned upon in the gaming world in general, and especially in the cRPG community due to the last decade's rise of the MMORPG f2p/p2w shenanigans. If you're not familiar with the mindset, I'm not going to go down that path now. But, if you're cRPG enthusiast then you should know this by heart.
Now, you could say that it would be a complaint to open or talk about why it is a rather odd practice, and I understand why you might misleadingly believe so given that you feel that way, however, that's not the case here. There's no "complaint" here that's uncalled for, if you will.
I think it is only natural that when you see something odd like that, and it sticks out from the usual concept of in-game Achievements that's practiced virtually everywhere else, it does raise a few questions.
The Achievement is nonsensical in that way it doesn't revolve around the game itself.
You might as well put "Live in New York for a month" achievement, which you get on the Steam game for completion 100%. It would be as odd as saying "If you live in this city, you get an achievement and 100% completion" or if it says "If you're from Vietnam, you get Vietnam achievement and 100% completion" for the game. The point is that it has nothing to do with the gameplay mechanics nor game itself. It has nothing to do with how much you've completed, or whether you bought the game for 1$ from someone or have spent 5000$ on it when you did pledge. Achievements should be equal for everyone based on the gameplay content, and not just a select few.
It is rather normal to see topics like that being predominant in the Discussions page. The pretense that paying for the achievement and game completion is something normal is also uncalled for. It's like saying that lootboxes is a normal practice, too. I'm not sure why you'd even defend such a stand or try to make it sound like it is something desirable for gamers?
Furthermore, that's completely irrelevant to basically everything that I've written here regarding the fact that the p2w achievement locks others from obtaining the 100% completion, which is an actual issue (however minuscule the issue is, it is an issue still).
I'm not sure it would be an act of any fraud, and your point that people have backed it up just because of the Steam achievement is unbelievable. The mere fact it is an isometric cRPG by Obsidian is well enough for anyone knowing their cRPG scene to back it up. The achievement as the driving force behind the game's backing is such a modicum that I can't even laugh on that argument.
That covers the existance of the achievement as a reward to kickstarter backers. Since the game is sold on multiple gaming platforms other than Steam which support achievements (such as GOG with Galaxy client), kickstarter backers were asked to choose where to receive their digital copy of the game, and that is where they get the achievement.
No. The pledge grants backers an achievement that is tied to the game and extra items as another reward. I've received such items for a pre-purchase, btw, since I've missed the slacker backer period. I'm also familiar with the extra rewards (such as getting an Obsidian forum badge) as a Fig backer of PoE 2.
It is not a paywall, since you cannot add a purchase to unlock the achievement. Whether it is "odd", sure, it has not been a good idea just like the infamous kickstarter backer NPCs and tomb stone messages, for example. That is why the devs have not repeated it for PoE 2 - and which is also why there are no kickstarter backer NPCs in The White March.
Kickstarter backers have paid much more cash to design NPCs, items, taverns, ingame portraits, enemies. Such rewards were the bread and butter of the crowdfunding campaign. In addition to attracting backers with stretch goals.
Laugh as much as you like, it won't lead to anything. This achievement is part of a financial deal, and removing it retroactively would be a fraudulent action.
It is what it is. Literally nobody on the planet cares that another person only has 99% achievements and not 100.
If you managed to get all the achievements except that one, nobody in existence will look at your profile and think "ha, what a noob".
Damarr is one of the few people who actually achieved all the achievements except that Kickstarter one (because the achievements are so hard to get all of them in this game in the first place), and would be one of the few who could legitimately complain, but as you can see he does not care.
If you really care that much, you can easily get a backers save file on the internet (many are available) and load it up, unlocking the achievement for yourself.
As you said, you like to just enjoy the game. Well then enjoy it and stop caring about achievements which literally have nothing to do with the game either. You have 100% access to everything in game as a backer or not. Steam achievements are just that, Steam achievements. You can get this game on other platforms that aren't steam which do not have these achievements.
Question is - why do you care if other players would get a 100% completion/achievement on the Steam page? :))
Ugh... :) Yeah, that is sort of an issue I've been pointing out?
Heh... The way you want to present it is as if it such a big deal to remove a Steam achievement that locks many players from obtaining the 100% completion.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be offended by the mere idea that players should be able to get a 100% completion on Steam achievements by playing the game?
You're appalled by the idea that people should be able to get a 100% completion without being Kickstarter backers?
Excuse me, but does it say anywhere on the official Kickstarter page that nobody will ever be able to attain the 100% Steam completion achievements for the Pillars of Eternity unless they pledge here and there at the time of crowdfunding?
Also, the way you present it is as if you've pledged just to make yourself feel special about it, rather than to actually help the developers in need, and furthermore spread the love for the cRPG. I'm honestly struck by that.
The mere fact that you've pledged for something that you love its own right should be a reward for itself, and in no way should it penalize anyone and all who've not done it.
As such, your argument stands a bit weak since not only do you not lose anything, but you also are trying to gatekeep something that should be attainable by anyone and everyone who owns a copy of the game.
Also, you are trying to make it sound all too legal, when it is in fact something that developers can retract based on the steam API that they can choose options from. As if their choice to remove an aspect of something game-related is somehow breaking some contract? Have you specifically make a contract with them?
Truthfully, you have no contract with them. And nobody does. You didn't sign in anything. You've accepted terms and conditions which go in their favour. And they have all the rights, even the right to remove a steam achievement if they so chose. It's not unheard of in the history of the steam Achievements, too.
Do you think that Kickstarter will sue them if they remove something that you mistook for an explicit Steam achievement? :) Will Kickstarter protect your rights to have a part of the pledge? :)
The way I see it is that they've made an oversight and a mistake during the progress of making the Steam achievement tied in with the in-game achievement, which locks other players from getting the Steam achievement unless they pay for the Deluxe edition. This should also point out that you're not familiar with the players who've received the title even though they weren't affiliated with anything Kickstarter-wise. That is what is known as a paywall and it is not a matter of an opinion when it is a fact. So, this doesn't somehow breach or infuriate the gatekeeping?
As I wrote earlier, if I get this game on a Steam sale for $1 in ten years from now, I shouldn't be penalized by not having the option to get all of the Steam achievements just because I wasn't there to pledge something 15 years ago. The inability to see or even acknowledge this is faulty logic at best, and what I could only perceive as pettiness at its worst.
Defending such practice is definitely not something I'd be doing if I was in your place, let alone find plausible to argue about to the point of gatekeeping something that literally has nothing to do with me and doesn't affect me even the slightest. So, to quote my first sentence - why do you care?
And even if it did take away some "achievement" I never really earned by playing the game, I'd be happy knowing that other players can also enjoy in the game I like and I'd give them encouragement for the future gaming, rather than show angst and vitriol just because I think I'm entitled to some sort of special treatment because I mistook something for ambiguity and tried to pass it as personal truth even though the info is publicly available.
Here's a proper answer, by psychotron666. Rather than going far and wide to justify the developer's actions, psychotron666 outright points out that Developers have in fact made a mistake and have admitted so. Very interesting!
Psychotron666, do you have the official response by the developer team? If yes, I'd be very grateful for the link. I figure it might be on their forums.
I will say that as it stands, this should be changed with a simple patch or special downloadable content. It can be fixed. There's literally no reason to keep it like this for the rest of the community, as it didn't say anywhere that the achievement would specifically be Steam on the official pledge page. As such, nobody should be feeling guilty about this as it was a technical error.
Do I care? Who says so? Anyone, who desperately wants to unlock the kickstarter achievement can do so, since there are at least two documented ways how to unlock it.
However, if someone complains about the kickstarter achievement long before unlocking substantial portions of the other 98% achievements of this game, I consider that a joke.
No. There is no "paywall", since you cannot pay for unlocking the achievement. The only way to get rewards was the crowdfunding campaign - and pre-purchasing for items. Non-free DLCs are behind a paywall, regardless of whether they add extra achievements, but they do for The White March.
It is well-known that they have offered different rewards in PoE 2. Btw, I've mentioned that in post #3.
Ugh... :)
Let's from now on keep away from your considerations, as you've led me astray from the truth thus far by providing faulty information that has nothing to do with the state of the game itself.
I find it suspect that so many people are very worried about getting 100% when so few have even seen the final boss. It is my opinion that achievements are useless and gaming would be far better if they didn't exist at all.
However, I understand that getting these achievements is very important to some people and not being able to get 100% can be upsetting.
Lucky for you, there is a handy dandy program that solve that for you, along with several other methods of getting said achievement.
Uhm, seriously?
It may be the unwelcome truth to you, but it is the driving force for me and why I respond to these topics. Not all of them, but some I've noticed.
There is no "faulty information". However, I'm not the press spokesman of the devs. I've been a forum user in Obsidian's forum. Yet I don't remember every post/topic since 2015. I've pointed out multiple times that some of the kickstarter rewards have been considered a mistake and therefore have not been repeated in PoE:Deadfire. Not limited to the achievement, but also the kickstarter backer NPCs. Deadfire has had other problems related to Fig rewards. The kickstarter rewards in PoE are carved into stone and are part of the deal with the financial supporters of the crowdfunding campaign. Dance as much as you like, but they are a tribute to the guys that contributed to making the game possible.
Now that that's out of in the air since the Developers have admitted their mistake, it should be pointed out that there's nothing much to discuss about the sentiments of people who've pledged. This was never even the intent of the topic.
However, it is amusing to see vitriol and adamant behaviour that tries to pursue some form of justification as if there's no apparent mistake. This has made it better than I thought it would be! The inability to accept truth regarding the fact that there was an oversight about the Steam achievement, and trying to present it as a "Financial deal" is some of the funniest, most unbelievable, self-justifiable things that I've read in quite some time. The sheer amount of entitlement mixed with apparent boredom is astounding! I'm sorry, but I had to explore that irrational over-defensive gatekeeping a bit! It's only human to be curious when things like that come knocking at your door.
So, let's go back to the premise and conclusion that we've established thus far (since this is actually fun a bit :) ) -the mere fact that Developers have made a mistake when they've applied a Steam achievement instead of in-game achievement should stop any and all action in trying to equate in-game achievement with the Steam achievement, and present it as a form of a "financial deal" (hah!).
Even though this has been pointed out, the sheer persistence and I must notice - adamant behaviour -of some users who're still trying to say how Developers didn't make a mistake is rather terrifying. Confusing, even. :)
Whether this is due to their obliviousness to both the issue I've presented, and/or not grasping the actual state of the game... Or, perhaps, could it be further fueled by the lack of understanding of the difference between the terms "in-game achievement" and "Steam achievement"? I really cannot say. I can say that it is amusing.
But, I wouldn't like to further digest this weird pledge-fund-legacy-irrationality-dimension of obliviousness to begin with. It could, however, be something less intellectual, perhaps something as simple as ignorance combined with adamancy to prove a point without having all the proper information at hand? And then trying to make the original poster (in this case me, but it doesn't have to be, of course) look bad by any means necessary, instead to altruistically and congenially offer a necessary input in the first place, potentially enriched with adequate links rather than misconceptions and personal beliefs?
Well, that'd be a stretch to ask for, seems like.
Trying to equate dichotomous in-game achievement with the steam achievements is a fool's errand in this case, as the Developers have admitted to their mistake.
To conclude, i'm unsure why is there an apparent adamant resolve to imply, tryingly, that Developers haven't made a mistake when they themselves have stated so, as psychotron666 have pointed out.
As such, from my perspective this was a technical error which is the only logical outcome. An oversight during the implementation of the API most likely.
From my perspective, there's no question about it. I consider that it is only human to make such mistakes, which is forgivable. Of course, as long as the mistakes can be fixed, which in this case -they can! :)
The question remains whether developers want to solve this, potentially by giving away the steam achievement to everyone who buys the game automatically? That's be sweet.
The achievement could've be changed to something like "A successful Kickstarter project" and then explained in-detail how it came to fruition within the lore/codex of the game, sort of like an easter-egg. That'd be cool IMO for future reference. However, due to the game's rather stagnant state, as well as the abundance of topics regarding the issue, this doesn't seem to be addressed properly. Unfortunately.
As such, I urge the Developers to reconsider changing or altering the Achievement from the topic's Title, and alter it in some way so that everyone has a fair chance in completing the 100% at their own pace, irregardless of how hard some challenges are or some of the backer' sentiment which looks like nothing more than an unsightly petty entitlement for something they've backed years ago.
Thank you.
I'm confused by your reply.
Care to elaborate?
Thanks
All this wall of text for an achievement you will never earn( but you can if you really want it !). Seriously dude grasp the legal ramifications of why they can't ditch or alter the kickstarter achievement. Everyone is with you when it comes to a gameplay perspective, it blows and doesn't make sense. It's even stupid in my subjective mind and most people agree with my sentiment and probably d'amarr does too. However this kickstarter project in particular was something special. in the sense that the developer in question was very unfamiliar with the platform they used. They needed the money, jumped on it, got all this money in no time and didn't know what to promise next in the progress. Hence idiotic promises like 15 level dungeons, backer npc's and yes the achievement. Please stop seeing malice in it. There is none... They just can't... and they won't... Things are always complicated... That's life
KLhshfssssssss... Hahaha! Hahahaha!
What of the legal ramifications? :)))) Go on, elaborate fully, I'll wait.
Please elaborate.
So, you're telling here that for a game that's around seven years old, which was delivered fully to everyone who backed it, would be a subject to legal actions by backers in case they change steam achievement. Meaning, you'd feel so entitled and even offended these days around as a backer in case they, God forbid, change something on the Steam platform that you'd take legal action against Obsidian in case they fix an achievement that's most likely a technical error?
Would you sue Obsidian over it?
To my knowledge, all of the backers have in fact received their prize thus far, and given the case and it's apparent obsolescence, there's literally 0% case for you to take all, if any, legal action against Obsidian as they've fully delivered what was asked to do.
This isn't a plea to change the Kickstarter pledge, but to change the Steam achievement. End of the story :D
What I'm curious is do you actually hear yourself or take time to realize things? Do you take time to actually understand what you're saying there? I don't think that you do. Oh, no...
The amount of strawman you guys pull off and come up with craziest of ideas is absolutely brilliant. :)
Please, carry on.