Pay to Win the Battle of Yenwood?

[What The Egad]

I've never done the Battle of Yenwood in such a way that Emery will actually betray Lord Gathbin. I did not even realize this was possible without researching this online.

Turns out, according to everything I've learned, that this is impossible to do without DLC. Unless I'm missing something, she won't betray Gathbin unless you're already winning the fight. Keep this in mind--she won't turn on her master because he's a cruel tyrant and because I'm a good guy--she betrays him because, at the last minute, she doesn't want to be on the losing side.

Why would anyone take her up at that point? Doesn't this just prove she has no principles at all?

If I'm right, this is literally a "pay to win" option where a scripted event will not play out unless you've recruited enough people for the battle. The only way this is possible is through White Match DLC. In other words, I have to pay real money for DLC and recruit armies in White March in order to trigger a base game result.

So, it doesn't matter that I'm Rank 3 Benevolent and Emery refuses to attack me at Brackenbury. She'll still fight me at Yenwood no matter what I do. Like I said, this seems like a pure "pay to win" option.

On that point, what exactly is her loyalty worth and why is the Watcher so interested in her in the first place? This basically means her betrayal is entirely pragmatic and not at all altruistic. So her "loyalty" to me isn't worth anything in the first place.

[AsianGirlLover]

You don’t need the DLC to win. You can get the Dozens, that Paladin group, or that one Noble family to support you and do fine with that alone. Getting veteran troops with 10k gold also isn’t that expensive since you’ll be making thousands off of every fight you loot from.

In fact, the battle leaves you with enough to basically break even.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

You must be kidding.

The White March DLC is like adding a sequel to the game. Of course you need to pay for that DLC since it adds much more than what was covered by the crowdfunding campaign for the game. People buy it because of what it offers as a fully integrated expansion to the game, not because of minor details that affect the side-quest you refer to. That side-quest was not even part of the game until version 3.0 (the initial release of The White March II).

Handling Emery with Cruel 2&3 helps a bit during the scripted event before the actual battle. The earlier choices are interesting for role-players, such as bribing her. But yes, some of the allies can only be found within The White March. Afterall, it's a large expansion that modifies the base game. With a higher level cap, soul-bound items, new abilities and more. Those all make the game easier. Finally, the battle is not impossible without The White March, and avoiding Emery via disposition doesn't guarantee that you will win the actual realtime-with-pause battle.

[What The Egad]

Originally posted by AsianGirlLover:

You don’t need the DLC to win. You can get the Dozens, that Paladin group, or that one Noble family to support you and do fine with that alone. Getting veteran troops with 10k gold also isn’t that expensive since you’ll be making thousands off of every fight you loot from.

In fact, the battle leaves you with enough to basically break even.

Let me be clear: You NEED the DLC to win the scripted event. You CANNOT win the scripted event without DLC. Moreover, you CANNOT turn Emery without DLC. Benevolent Rank 3? Doesn't matter. Cruel Rank 3? Doesn't matter.

Do you not see what the game is doing here? You have a base-game event that requires DLC in order to win the scripted event AND add any meaning to any encounters you had with Emery.

In the end, the game gives you a number of choices that do. Not. Matter...UNLESS you have White March.

[What The Egad]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

You must be kidding.

The White March DLC is like adding a sequel to the game. Of course you need to pay for that DLC since it adds much more than what was covered by the crowdfunding campaign for the game. People buy it because of what it offers as a fully integrated expansion to the game, not because of minor details that affect the side-quest you refer to. That side-quest was not even part of the game until version 3.0 (the initial release of The White March II).

Handling Emery with Cruel 2&3 helps a bit during the scripted event before the actual battle. The earlier choices are interesting for role-players, such as bribing her. But yes, some of the allies can only be found within The White March. Afterall, it's a large expansion that modifies the base game. With a higher level cap, soul-bound items, new abilities and more. Those all make the game easier. Finally, the battle is not impossible without The White March, and avoiding Emery via disposition doesn't guarantee that you will win the actual realtime-with-pause battle.

I'm familiar with how DLC works. And no, I don't NEED to pay for anything. I bought the base game and I was given choices in the base game that, ultimately, do not matter unless you download the DLC.

[AsianGirlLover]

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

you have a scripted event where you make a number of choices that, in the end, DO NOT MATTER. That's what I mean. Unless you have White March, your choices don't matter.

That’s pretty much how it seems, yeah.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

Let me be clear: You NEED the DLC to win the scripted event.

You don't need to recruit any allies at all.

[AsianGirlLover]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

Let me be clear: You NEED the DLC to win the scripted event.

You don't need to recruit any allies at all.

He’s talking about the “choose your own adventure” part where you get text telling you how the battle is going and whatnot. You can’t get Emery to join you without the DLC.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by AsianGirlLover:

You can’t get Emery to join you without the DLC.

Let's not make a big fuss about nothing. The scripted event is just an option to decimate the enemy forces. With sufficient disposition rank, Emery will switch sides if and only if the Watcher has acquired the right allies to drive away the three opposing forces during that scripted event. Player can fail in multiple ways, like sending wrong allies against specific troops - but that is not the end of the battle.

[smilehigh]

Shock: DLC adds new content to the game, what a d-move by the developers!

Captain Emery is an opportunistic mercenary who'd kill unfamiliar people for money. She also betrays her employer once the odds start to turn against him. Such a pillar of virtue to be admired by your "Benevolent 3" character!

Not sure if you know that, but her redemption story arc ends right there on the battlefield - she doesn't join you later and vanishes from the game forever.
She's just a minor quest detail that enriches the story and rewards replayablility.

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

On that point, what exactly is her loyalty worth and why is the Watcher so interested in her in the first place? This basically means her betrayal is entirely pragmatic and not at all altruistic. So her "loyalty" to me isn't worth anything in the first place.

It's not about her loyalty, it's about decreasing the number of enemies that your party would face during the actual battle. Treat this as just another "war asset".

[What The Egad]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by AsianGirlLover:

You can’t get Emery to join you without the DLC.

Let's not make a big fuss about nothing. The scripted event is just an option to decimate the enemy forces. With sufficient disposition rank, Emery will switch sides if and only if the Watcher has acquired the right allies to drive away the three opposing forces during that scripted event. Player can fail in multiple ways, like sending wrong allies against specific troops - but that is not the end of the battle.

You left out the part where you NEED the White March DLC to actually oppose all three opposing forces during the scripted event. Ultimately, base-game Battle of Yenwood is incomplete and gives you choices that don't really matter.

The game's writing even makes it a point for the Watcher to take notice of Emery and ask her to switch sides at Brackenbury. Why would they do this in the base game if the outcome at Yenwood was always going to be inevitable WITHOUT DLC?

That's the point.

[What The Egad]

Originally posted by smilehigh:

Shock: DLC adds new content to the game, what a d-move by the developers!

New content or fixes old content by making what you do in the base game actually matter?

Or did you even read the original post?

[What The Egad]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

Let me be clear: You NEED the DLC to win the scripted event.

You don't need to recruit any allies at all.

I realize that. In essence, this makes the scripted event meaningless outside DLC content.

Base game only allows you to recruit mercs and one of three factions from Defiance Bay and then gives you a scripted even that can really only be won if bought and completed DLC first. Again, this is the BASE GAME that I'm talking about. It's like the developers purposefully gave you a handicap and teased a potential recruit (Emery) but didn't actually deliver because you gotta pay the $25.00 fee first.

See what I mean?

[smilehigh]

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

Originally posted by smilehigh:

Shock: DLC adds new content to the game, what a d-move by the developers!

New content or fixes old content by making what you do in the base game actually matter?

Or did you even read the original post?

Battle of Yenwood Filed quest is not "old" content. It was introduced in patch 3.0.
Also no content was "fixed", you can still complete the quest no problem. Having DLC just allows you to have optional story elements that reward certain player behavior in White March.

[What The Egad]

Originally posted by smilehigh:

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

New content or fixes old content by making what you do in the base game actually matter?

Or did you even read the original post?

Battle of Yenwood Filed quest is not "old" content. It was introduced in patch 3.0.
Also no content was "fixed", you can still complete the quest no problem. Having DLC just allows you to have optional story elements that reward certain player behavior in White March.

Except I also said "base game" which gave context that delving into the semantics of what "old content" was unnecessary. It's like how you wanna differentiate between saying a game was patched but no content was fixed by putting "fixed" into quotes as if the two are mutually exclusive.

[smilehigh]

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

Base game only allows you to recruit mercs and one of three factions from Defiance Bay and then gives you a scripted even that can really only be won if bought and completed DLC first.

You don't WIN in the scripted event. The scripted event only helps you to reduce the number of enemies that you will face on the battle field. And yes, the DLC allows you to make the battlle easier. It also allows you to reach level 16 (compared to lvl12 in the main game) and just nuke everything with your eyes closed.

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

I did not even realize this was possible without researching this online.

This is your problem. You searched online for a detail only available in the DLC. It's not like in the base game during the scripted event a window popped up on your screen and said: proceed to Steam Store to complete the quest.

Originally posted by Cheeseknife:

Except I also said "base game" which gave context that delving into the semantics of what "old content" was unnecessary. It's like how you wanna differentiate between saying a game was patched but no content was fixed by putting "fixed" into quotes as if the two are mutually exclusive.

Let me reiterate: no old content was "patched" in this case. This entire quest was added in a patch that was introduced several years after the original release of the game.