Priest feels underperforming and weak.

[Grimaldus]

I'm on my 2nd playthrough with Pallegina, Grieving mother, Edèr, Aloth, Durance and my character being a 2nd cipher. Sofar i've been able to pretty much breeze through content because my 2-cipher setup is literally taking out 4 enemies instantly each fight, the only fight sofar which was a challenge, was the dragon - Cail the Silent.

My group is currently L7 - i litterally breezed through Raedric's Hold.

And in every fight it feels like Durance is extremely underperforming, all his spells feels like they're not really contributing to winning any fights, and priests having their PBAoE's with no area of effect to really write home about.. some priest spells area are 1 meter...

I currently have Durance like this.
17Might, 8Con, 18Dex, 12Per, 18Int, 4Res.

Inspiring Radiance.
Weapon focus: Soldier (Durance uses Aequebus)
Scion of Flame.

He also uses the +2Int helm from City of Defiance vendor, which puts his Int at 20.
Yet he doesn't seem to matter during fights, not really.

[Gilmoy]

Yup.

Durance is a pure shooter, never casts any per-rests. Only shoots his Arquebus for free.
He's a big support archer. It's a blah role, but reliable like a metronome.

Priest has no offensive gimmick or firepower. (Per-rest spells are not a gimmick.)
Priest will never lead your party in kills.
(Well, maybe at L13+, when you don't need the help.)

When you play correctly, you win fights by lockdown without ever needing Priest's buffs.
You don't need defensive buffs, you don't (really) need offensive buffs.

You don't even need Priest at all.
You can replace Durance with any 1 other companion.
Sagani + Stormcaller could do the support archer role even better.

It's not really a weakness of the Priest class.
It's more that you've chosen a specific extreme point among viable strategies.
Your 2-Cipher party is a glass cannon gimmick writ large, relying on alpha-stealing.
It's a firestorm in the 90% of fights where your gimmick works, and you get fast kills.
It fails in a few edge cases, esp. Undead with immunities, or very high Fortitude (dragons).

So you've built your run to be in the fast kills domain.
Priest is nearly dead weight in a Phoenix missile fight.
Priest is better in a methodical party build that slogs through fights by trading damage.
I tend to agree with you that trading damage is a loser's mentality.

Durance is fun and necessary once because his side quest contains core storytelling.
Include him in 1 run (ever), just to read all of his scripted talks and finish his quest.

Priest class isn't necessary, especially for your party.
You knew when you built 2 Ciphers that you'll sacrifice 6 classes regardless.
Now you have data, and it's not wrong. Priest doesn't fit this build. Nod, move on.

Swap in each of the other 5 classes you don't already have, and test them all
Anyways, I love this as proof that the 2-Cipher gimmick build really works.

[Frostfeather]

The more damage and control you have, the less useful a Priest is likely to feel. Especially if you're on anything under PotD, and especially in many normal fights. Wizards (and Ciphers to a lesser degree) can make things feel easy even without a Priest.

One thing to take note of is Inspiring Radiance is unique in that it stacks with other Accuracy bonuses and most importantly, it goes out early enough to affect Wizard/Cipher spells cast immediately at the start of the fight. So if you're using Inspiring Radiance right off the bat, it's likely helping you control/end fights without much trouble. In that case, you do have to give Durance partial "credit" for what the buffed characters are doing. If you add in Painful Interdiction later along with Apprentice Sneak Attack on some of your other characters (which is a popular combo), then again you'd have to credit him with part of what they're doing. Same with Devotions or whatever other buffs he might use.

Also, later enemies will cause some nasty effects that can be prevented or removed with a Priest. So you may find him more useful later.

[Grimaldus]

I think the problem here is less about my 2 ciphers in my group, then about how utterly pointless priests feels in group synergy. One cipher more or less isn't going to break the game, and it certainly shouldn't outright nullify a priest from being warranted in groups.

Imo the game feature that makes priests so weak when compared to priets from other games, like Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale, is that the priest in those games can literally turn the tide with their buffs and heals, where as priets in PoE more or less feels like a wasted slot in a group which could be better used up with a rogue, druid or even.... even a chanter.

Priests insanely small area of effect is a huge limiter of their ability to be of use,
and some of their most important abilities, are PBAoE's in a small radius, meaning the priests has to be in the center of fights, with their non-existant health and defenses.

A single AoE from a dragon, poisoncloud or fireball from an enemy caster,
and most likely that priest is going to get knocked out, just because they needed to be in the midddle of the battle to be of use.

So i'm sorry to rant here. But sofar i've yet to see anyone on google or forums, actually explain the strength of priests and how they turn the tide, all threads i've read ends up with the same conclusion - that the spot of a priest is better taken up by a class that performs better and brings more to the table .

Which is why i made this post... i'm not an expert in PoE , i'm just talking from experience, so maybe one of you, can actually show me where i'm wrong, and enlighten me to where the priests truly shines and are a strong part of the group.

[Frostfeather]

I'd have to disagree pretty hard. Priest is often considered to be the second best class after Wizard, and for good reason.

If you want to know why, look at what they nerfed in Deadfire for what's overpowered in Pillars 1: Devotions, Painful Interdiction, Inspiring Radiance, immunity spells, overall cast speed, etc.

Also, I just Googled "Pillars of Eternity class tier list" and almost every list for Pillars 1 has Priest in the 2 or 3 with reasons why... so I dunno what you're looking at, lol.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

I don't understand this topic.

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

I'm on my 2nd playthrough

But which difficulty mode? None of your posts tell.

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

I currently have Durance like this.
17Might, 8Con, 18Dex, 12Per, 18Int, 4Res.

You've modded the game? Why?

His base attributes are hardcoded: 14,13,9,9,15,18

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

Weapon focus: Soldier (Durance uses Aequebus)

Inspired Flame is the more important talent for him as a Priest of Magran. A stacking +10 bonus for Arquebus and Sword.

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

Scion of Flame.

Possibly a waste. Whereas priests known some fire magic, their support spells and various seals and stuff are unrelated to fire.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

Scion of Flame.

Possibly a waste. Whereas priests known some fire magic, their support spells and various seals and stuff are unrelated to fire.

Yeah. At release, Brilliant Radiance was quite strong and made Scion of Flame a better choice then.

Now, you've probably got to use Fire/Fireball gear (like Curoc's Brand or The Flames of Fair Rhîan, which comes kinda late) to justify Scion. On top of some Fire spells, too, which basically makes you a Priest trying to be a Wizard when you could just be a better character as a Wizard instead.

Not a terrible way for one Priest to go if you're running 2 Priests though.

Also, while Durance's Staff is ok as a Fire weapon, it requires a bit of investment and opportunity cost to upgrade. And ironically, since op dumped Durances's Res (and lowered Con), he'll be a questionable offtank/second liner if he's using it. I tend to find Paladin better for that place in the group's formation vs a Priest, as they're specifically made for it.

[Grimaldus]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

I'm playing on medium, and i modded the game because all the companions
are hardcoded in their stats, and some of those stats sucks, i wanted them
to perform better, i wanted better tanking from Pallagenia, and better dps from grieving mother etc etc.
Hence why i also changed Durance, his stats were all over the place.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

I'm playing on medium, and i modded the game because all the companions
are hardcoded in their stats, and some of those stats sucks,

The lower the difficulty mode, the more easier you can breeze through the game - and with less than six team members. A quick monk can do wonders, even alone.

So, your attributes for Durance: 17,8,18,12,18,4

Not sure what the strategy is there. Very high MIG for healing and/or damage? Not everyone plays priests as healers, because there are alternative healing sources. Like potions and a chanter. Priests can do major damage for sure, but then higher PER would be a good idea compared with very high MIG/INT. Dumped RES 4 will be a major risk on higher difficulties. Just like reduced CON, since Priest class traits are very low base Endurance and low Health already. Even a fighter with CON 8 can be one-shot killed by enemy spell casters.

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

Hence why i also changed Durance, his stats were all over the place.

They are fine with the perspective of a role-player. There's absolutely no need to min-max him (or the other story companions) in any way.

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

i wanted better tanking from Pallagenia,

But... but she (Pallegina) is a Paladin. The class that can reach the overall highest four defenses in this game even if choosing an offensive role that will be more efficient. -10 base Deflection with Fighter class. -5 base Accuracy compared with Fighter class. Only reduced Veteran's Recovery for regenerating Endurance as a cross-class talent. Surely Eder is the more versatile frontliner.

[Reverse-Xautos]

Originally posted by night4:

I'd have to disagree pretty hard. Priest is often considered to be the second best class after Wizard, and for good reason.

If you want to know why, look at what they nerfed in Deadfire for what's overpowered in Pillars 1: Devotions, Painful Interdiction, Inspiring Radiance, immunity spells, overall cast speed, etc.

Also, I just Googled "Pillars of Eternity class tier list" and almost every list for Pillars 1 has Priest in the 2 or 3 with reasons why... so I dunno what you're looking at, lol.

I have to disagree extremely hard! Priest and wizard are almost always considered two of the worst classes, and for extremely good reasons.

When i googled the tier list almost every result had thw priest near the bottom with multiple reasons why, so i don't know what you are looking at, lol.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Reverse-Xautos:

Originally posted by night4:

I'd have to disagree pretty hard. Priest is often considered to be the second best class after Wizard, and for good reason.

If you want to know why, look at what they nerfed in Deadfire for what's overpowered in Pillars 1: Devotions, Painful Interdiction, Inspiring Radiance, immunity spells, overall cast speed, etc.

Also, I just Googled "Pillars of Eternity class tier list" and almost every list for Pillars 1 has Priest in the 2 or 3 with reasons why... so I dunno what you're looking at, lol.

I have to disagree extremely hard! Priest and wizard are almost always considered two of the worst classes, and for extremely good reasons.

When i googled the tier list almost every result had thw priest near the bottom with multiple reasons why, so i don't know what you are looking at, lol.

Link these lists.

[Trevor Jacobson]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Reverse-Xautos:

I have to disagree extremely hard! Priest and wizard are almost always considered two of the worst classes, and for extremely good reasons.

When i googled the tier list almost every result had thw priest near the bottom with multiple reasons why, so i don't know what you are looking at, lol.

Link these lists.

night4, nobody is going to waste their time proving you wrong over a fact that is so obvious!

[Trevor Jacobson]

Originally posted by Reverse-Xautos:

Originally posted by night4:

I'd have to disagree pretty hard. Priest is often considered to be the second best class after Wizard, and for good reason.

If you want to know why, look at what they nerfed in Deadfire for what's overpowered in Pillars 1: Devotions, Painful Interdiction, Inspiring Radiance, immunity spells, overall cast speed, etc.

Also, I just Googled "Pillars of Eternity class tier list" and almost every list for Pillars 1 has Priest in the 2 or 3 with reasons why... so I dunno what you're looking at, lol.

I have to disagree extremely hard! Priest and wizard are almost always considered two of the worst classes, and for extremely good reasons.

When i googled the tier list almost every result had thw priest near the bottom with multiple reasons why, so i don't know what you are looking at, lol.

You are completely right the wizard and the priest are horrible, especially the priest!

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Gregory:

Originally posted by night4:

Link these lists.

night4, nobody is going to waste their time proving you wrong over a fact that is so obvious!

They certainly wouldn't take the time to use an alt account to harass people across multiple forums.

Blocked

[Trevor Jacobson]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Gregory:

night4, nobody is going to waste their time proving you wrong over a fact that is so obvious!

They certainly wouldn't take the time to use an alt account to harass people across multiple forums.

Blocked

night4, you harass players on multiple forums with alt accounts! I have 1 account! When countless players disagree with you that doesn't make them alts. night4, when you block someone you are doing that person a favor.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Reverse-Xautos:

When i googled the tier list almost every result had thw priest near the bottom with multiple reasons why, so i don't know what you are looking at, lol.

First result at Google shows both at the top. For example:
--> https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/aataes/tier_list_for_classes_1st_game/

Not going to spend more time searching for other lists you may have found.

As I've commented on Durance in older topics, his base attributes are rather cowardish and defensive, sure, but there are ways to enhance them. Various ways even. Creating a custom priest companion with vastly different base attributes is an available option.

Battle Priests take a bit to buff themselves at start of combat. Preferably they have one or two body guards that benefit from the smaller AoE of support spells - but trying to hide behind a single overly defensive warrior can be a bad idea in this game, if playing on harder difficulty modes.

Those infamous "nigh unhittable tank" paladins are a bad idea because of the Miss/Graze/Hit/Crit system where even a Graze can cause devastating afflictions. And a paladin that only tries to survive the onslaught isn't helpful.