Rogue Deflection

[Gorwe]

wtf does he have such a low deflection? Aren't Rogues supposed to be "slippery" types?

I am ok with console commands to set it straight or even to flatout mod it(if someone wants to share how to). Rogues shouldn't have the deflection of a Wizard, come on!

Does Han Solo or Bilbo look like they have defenses of a...an old wizard(not counting spells, ofc)?

[wendigo211]

Back when the game was released Rogues used to be a lot tougher, they had Fighter level endurance and IIRC higher deflection. When the devs started nerfing classes in the patches Rogues got hit really hard (probably because all the early PotD solos were done by rogues). If you're in a group it's not that hard to keep them going, you just have to pick targets that have been debuffed (preferably by something like paralyze that won't let them hit back, but blindness and fear will do the trick as well). Also get ready to run if multiple enemies start to converge on them. They're basically glass cannons now, and you have to get used to playing them as such.

[sonntam]

Rogues are good at evading damage and not attracting attention of enemies. They are usually pretty weak and only reason they survive is that they deal a lot of damage very quickly. And lmao, as if Bilbo ever stood his ground and fought someone without some cheap tricks and running around a lot. He was not even particularily agile, he just had the advantage of being constantly underestimated.

I use stuns (aka Sap) and debuffs (like Blinding Strike) to make sure they don't hurt my rogue. When there are too many enemies focused on my rogue (usually even two is too much), I use Coordinated Positioning to get away. I also like Shadowing Beyond, because it gets rid of enemies and you get a damage buff from the stealth.

You can also go for the Han Solo route and equip your rogue with a ranged weapon. That's what I did with my rogue till I got some really good melee weapons and a sufficient skill set to deal with dangerous situations.

Either way, a rogue is by far not a tank. You don't want the rogue to engage more than one enemy, you want to hit hard and fast and then get out just as fast as things get heated. You could also try getting some Resolve gear and buffs, that should get our deflection up. But I think it's best to focus on highest damage output, because for rogues best defense is strong offense.

[Gorwe]

Yeah, I am not asking for a buff to endurance(tho I could understand that as well), but if a Monk has huge Deflection(flow like a water), why doesn't Rogue have one too(both of them focusing on dodging as it were)? At least 25 starting or so? I mean, that's the difference between having Graceful Retreat and not having it. With 25 Def and GR, you'd have 40 Def vs Dis.Att. Which is not bad and would cause a hit at most on Dis.Att(tho most'd be Grazes, I expect). With 15 Def, Rogues are almost at the Wizard Tier-just the fk. You can't move around the battlefield(Archers get you, someone locks you in melee -> GG etc etc) this way. And how are Rogues supposed to reach their natural targets then, hm(backline squishies)?

It doesn't make sense to me. Rogues should use Deflection(aka feinted positioning) as their defense, not bulky platemails. Almost similar to Monks in a sense.

[sonntam]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Yeah, I am not asking for a buff to endurance(tho I could understand that as well), but if a Monk has huge Deflection(flow like a water), why doesn't Rogue have one too(both of them focusing on dodging as it were)?

A monk is not meant to dodge blows, but instead get wounded and take plenty of damage, so that they can unleash their more powerful abilities. Monks are in a difficult position, because while they crucially need to be hit by enemies, ta hey need to slow down the damage flow to more manageable levels. That's why they have deflection bonus. Without it they would be useless, as they would just die long before they got their stronger abilities unlocked.

Originally posted by Gorwe:

And how are Rogues supposed to reach their natural targets then, hm(backline squishies)?

Why did you even mention Han Solo, if you are so against using ranged weapons?

Originally posted by Gorwe:

With 15 Def, Rogues are almost at the Wizard Tier-just the fk. You can't move around the battlefield(Archers get you, someone locks you in melee -> GG etc etc) this way.

Archers can be killed pretty quickly. I used to start every fight with my rogue luring out enemies and naturally ranged characters locked down on the rogue. Usually after the first big hits, I stunned or killed them without much ado.

And besides the stealth abilities are there for this exact reason, so that you can have an easier time to move around the battlefield and to easily drop aggro.

[Nalds Lenha]

As I understand POE it takes a different view on the mechanics of armor. First armors doesn't help one to not be hit like in Baldur's Gate and alikes. Armor makes one take less damage. That makes more sense in the way that any character can use it indepentily of it's fighting skills. In realism terms you don't need proper training to use one armor you can just use it (a bit dependant on ones strengh and endurance to use such heavy things witch is understandable since most characters are battle oriented characters not farmers).

About the rogue being faster and should have better deflection I disagree since dexterity does gives fast speed and reflex bonuses. A quick character acts faster and can dodge but that doesn't count in favor against a skilled fighter trying to hit you. Assuming rogues characters have a background of a shadowy lowlife it would probably lack of proper fighting training relying more on instincts and so. A high resolve would fit this scheme very neatly. A hard life lowborn thief type would have endured alot and learned to be more resolute then others.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Nalds Lenha:

As I understand POE it takes a different view on the mechanics of armor. First armors doesn't help one to not be hit like in Baldur's Gate and alikes. Armor makes one take less damage. That makes more sense in the way that any character can use it indepentily of it's fighting skills. In realism terms you don't need proper training to use one armor you can just use it (a bit dependant on ones strengh and endurance to use such heavy things witch is understandable since most characters are battle oriented characters not farmers).

About the rogue being faster and should have better deflection I disagree since dexterity does gives fast speed and reflex bonuses. A quick character acts faster and can dodge but that doesn't count in favor against a skilled fighter trying to hit you. Assuming rogues characters have a background of a shadowy lowlife it would probably lack of proper fighting training relying more on instincts and so. A high resolve would fit this scheme very neatly. A hard life lowborn thief type would have endured alot and learned to be more resolute then others.

Yes, I know. This is why I mention the need for Deflection. Yes, I am sure some can finish triple crown with like 40 Def, but let's leave this aside, ok? What one type of people do with armour, other types of people do with reflexes and dodging.

And I'm not sure whether I agree with some movings from DnD. Some really remind me of a "poor man's DnD". Example: No "Dodge" / "Mobility" / "Def.Roll" / "Slippery Mind" etc on Rogues. Things that made a Rogue, a Rogue. I like these classes, but not a single one grabs me like a Warlock, like a Sorceror or Bard do in DnD.

I am certain that PoE 2 will be spectacular(just like KoTOR 2, BG 2 etc was when compared to their predecessors). But this...they need to refine the mechanics much. They are crude(as in year 2000 crude) currently.