It's crazy how much better this is than Kingmaker.

[WhiteCrow]

Could just be me, but I bounced off Kingmaker pretty hard. I tried to give it a 30-40 hour fair shake, but man I couldn't do it. I'm familiar with DnD rulesets and even played Pathfinder tabletop a few times, but something about the presentation and execution in that game grated on me.

It looked too cartoony for me at least, and what I saw of the writing and character exposition was flat and monotone. Granted I only played the first chapter, but things didn't seem important enough to care about what's going on. The implementation of the ruleset seemed jarring and annoying for a videogame.

I don't mean to sound so harsh, but I'm comparing it to PoE here. I'm glad Kingmaker and WotR exist for the genre, but it just wasn't for me. You can argue that PoE doesn't have as much depth as a full on DnD ruleset like they "tried" to represent in Kingmaker, but I think Obsidian knew what they were doing. They understood it needed to be a bit abstract, otherwise you end up with super annoying mechanics in the medium of a videogame. Kingmaker failed there.

Also, PoE immediately grips you. Things are dire, serious, mysterious. It's got edge. You want to find out what's going on. The writing is in another league compared to Kingmaker. I don't know, just rambling here. Thoughts? Am I horrible for knocking a fellow CRPG, or am I not alone?

[ZumZoom]

I agree about PoE gripping you right from the start and being pretty consistently good when it comes to the atmosphere and writing.
I can't compare it to Kingmaker - haven't played yet. But I can compare it to another "cartoony" feeling game - DoS, mainly due to how jarring is it's mix of dark themes with some childish humor, and also I don't like the writing (especially in DoS2).
For these reasons I like PoE much more than DoS, even though I prefer turn-based to real-time with pause. PoE is one of the dew fantasy games that I actually want to play again someday.

[happy]

I find that pillars's writing is incredibly bad. Lame forced plot, wordy writing, it makes me cringe.
Kingmaker's writing was absolutely tasteless, so is the story. I prefer a taste of nothing to a taste of crap.

On the other hand, pillar has got beautiful maps, a kingdom to manage that is not a loadingscreen simulator.

Kingmaker has better character system.

There OP, if you think you were too harsh on kingmaker , I made things even.

And of course, to each their own.

[puppet74]

same as op, i do enjoy kingmaker, but its got nothing on pillars. Combat is a big thing for me, and because poe takes its own take and made a system made for games, it cutts out alot of the annoying crap that you get in kingmaker, and it makes combat alot more enjoyable, tactical, and ur having to think every moment of a big fight as apose to kingmaker where 90% of combat is won before you even fight.
I also just prefer the tone of poe, and the world, its more more grim and the writing is like a fantasy novel , very heavy and beautifully written.

but yeh glad you're enjoying it.

[ZumZoom]

Originally posted by SUPAA天才児:

The writing in POE is so bad that I give myself 2 seconds to skim over each page of text just to get the bare minimum gist of it. I feel it was written by a random high school student who has never once practiced writing anything before and tries to camouflage an utter lack of skill with convoluted, long-winded rambling.

Let me guess - you thought the writing in The Outer Worlds was great? If you've played it that is.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by ZumZoom:

Originally posted by SUPAA天才児:

The writing in POE is so bad that I give myself 2 seconds to skim over each page of text just to get the bare minimum gist of it. I feel it was written by a random high school student who has never once practiced writing anything before and tries to camouflage an utter lack of skill with convoluted, long-winded rambling.

Let me guess - you thought the writing in The Outer Worlds was great? If you've played it that is.

I'm... Trying to find the common thread between thinking PoE's writing is awful and thinking the writing in The Outer Worlds is great, and coming up empty.

I enjoy both games, just to be clear.

[WhiteCrow]

Originally posted by puppet74:

same as op, i do enjoy kingmaker, but its got nothing on pillars. Combat is a big thing for me, and because poe takes its own take and made a system made for games, it cutts out alot of the annoying crap that you get in kingmaker, and it makes combat alot more enjoyable, tactical, and ur having to think every moment of a big fight as apose to kingmaker where 90% of combat is won before you even fight.
I also just prefer the tone of poe, and the world, its more more grim and the writing is like a fantasy novel , very heavy and beautifully written.

but yeh glad you're enjoying it.

Yeah really having a good time with it. I actually enjoy the writing and the plot. When I sit down to play I feel like I'm following along a good book, or binge watching a good show. The combat is just the right amount of depth and complexity, at least for me, so it isn't a nuisance.

[✙205🍉🐆→]

It's just that the game is more compact, reminded pop version of Icewind Dale

[indiewo1f]

I'm really struggling to get immersed with all of the gold plated kickstarter NPCs. I really wish there was a mod to remove them.

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by Indiewulf:

I'm really struggling to get immersed with all of the gold plated kickstarter NPCs. I really wish there was a mod to remove them.

Just don't click them. They are clearly marked.

[Exor]

I finished both Kingmaker and WotR and while waiting for the EE release I decided to give this series a try too.

I'm currently in DLC act and can say both series have their strong and weak point at least in rtwp mode.

Pathfinder focuses more on character build and pre fight buffing.
Most encounters are trash packs where you just auto attack and occasionaly cast a cc spell (playing on challenging/core).

PoE has more shallow character build options but the encounters are more interesting becasue you are ecouraged to use more abilities and there are almost no trivial trash packs(playing on hard).

Both are good games.
But I think PoE is slightly better suited as a video game since it isn't shackled with tabletop mechanics that are made redunat by save scumming - skill checks and insta kill spells.

[puppet74]

Originally posted by Exor:

I finished both Kingmaker and WotR and while waiting for the EE release I decided to give this series a try too.

I'm currently in DLC act and can say both series have their strong and weak point at least in rtwp mode.

Pathfinder focuses more on character build and pre fight buffing.
Most encounters are trash packs where you just auto attack and occasionaly cast a cc spell (playing on challenging/core).

PoE has more shallow character build options but the encounters are more interesting becasue you are ecouraged to use more abilities and there are almost no trivial trash packs(playing on hard).

Both are good games.
But I think PoE is slightly better suited as a video game since it isn't shackled with tabletop mechanics that are made redunat by save scumming - skill checks and insta kill spells.

well they wanted to make a dnd style game without all the tabletop rules as they just end up hurting and draging a game down. One of the reasons i prefer poe, it just feels more streamlined. i dont fee bogged down in crap that just doesn't work well for a game. Things like encumbered, having to rest all the time, pre buffing ext.

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by puppet74:

Originally posted by Exor:

I finished both Kingmaker and WotR and while waiting for the EE release I decided to give this series a try too.

I'm currently in DLC act and can say both series have their strong and weak point at least in rtwp mode.

Pathfinder focuses more on character build and pre fight buffing.
Most encounters are trash packs where you just auto attack and occasionaly cast a cc spell (playing on challenging/core).

PoE has more shallow character build options but the encounters are more interesting becasue you are ecouraged to use more abilities and there are almost no trivial trash packs(playing on hard).

Both are good games.
But I think PoE is slightly better suited as a video game since it isn't shackled with tabletop mechanics that are made redunat by save scumming - skill checks and insta kill spells.

well they wanted to make a dnd style game without all the tabletop rules as they just end up hurting and draging a game down. One of the reasons i prefer poe, it just feels more streamlined. i dont fee bogged down in crap that just doesn't work well for a game. Things like encumbered, having to rest all the time, pre buffing ext.

Well Poe 1 you have to rest all the time. Thankfully they got rid of that in the second game.

[puppet74]

Originally posted by psychotron666420:

Originally posted by puppet74:

well they wanted to make a dnd style game without all the tabletop rules as they just end up hurting and draging a game down. One of the reasons i prefer poe, it just feels more streamlined. i dont fee bogged down in crap that just doesn't work well for a game. Things like encumbered, having to rest all the time, pre buffing ext.

Well Poe 1 you have to rest all the time. Thankfully they got rid of that in the second game.

if ur resting all the time ur doing it wrong. even on potd 2 campfires is more than enough. but no i actually prefer the mechanic in 1 than 2. you can kinda abuse it in 2

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by puppet74:

Originally posted by psychotron666420:

Well Poe 1 you have to rest all the time. Thankfully they got rid of that in the second game.

if ur resting all the time ur doing it wrong. even on potd 2 campfires is more than enough. but no i actually prefer the mechanic in 1 than 2. you can kinda abuse it in 2

I've had no problems with camping supplies and resting, it's just a dumb game mechanic imo. Resting in the middle of raedric keep while it's on full alert is just dumb. Resting in job irenicus dungeon at the beginning of bg 2 is dumb. It's a stupid way of designing the game around and I'm glad they did away with it in Poe 2.

Even the arbitrary campfire system in Poe 1 is dumb, we can hold unlimited weapons and armor but no camping supplies? It's just a game-ey gimmick that ruins any sense of immersion.

That stuff is fine for tabletop where a good DM can make repercussions for resting in hostile areas but not for Video Games. But having everything built around per rest and resource management in a video game where you can abuse the resource management by resting in the middle of the bad guy's lair is just dumb game mechanics

[puppet74]

Originally posted by psychotron666420:

Originally posted by puppet74:

if ur resting all the time ur doing it wrong. even on potd 2 campfires is more than enough. but no i actually prefer the mechanic in 1 than 2. you can kinda abuse it in 2

I've had no problems with camping supplies and resting, it's just a dumb game mechanic imo. Resting in the middle of raedric keep while it's on full alert is just dumb. Resting in job irenicus dungeon at the beginning of bg 2 is dumb. It's a stupid way of designing the game around and I'm glad they did away with it in Poe 2.

Even the arbitrary campfire system in Poe 1 is dumb, we can hold unlimited weapons and armor but no camping supplies? It's just a game-ey gimmick that ruins any sense of immersion.

That stuff is fine for tabletop where a good DM can make repercussions for resting in hostile areas but not for Video Games. But having everything built around per rest and resource management in a video game where you can abuse the resource management by resting in the middle of the bad guy's lair is just dumb game mechanics

i just see it as a save, harder diff, less saves. u suck? then you have to go back to town more.
it would be nice though if you could get attacked while resting if you choose to do it in a dangerous place. i wouldn't mind that, its the risk you can take to save time.