Help, am I overthinking it?

[Mr Hitachi]

I finally got around to play PoE after having it steam library for ages. And now i got PoE2 so wanna try finish number one first. But my hardest thing is character creation so plz help me out a little here. I intend to play this on normal as suits best with the free time i got for gaming but kinda stuck on what attributes to set. I belive im sitting here overthinking it all for normal difficulty. Was thinking of going ranged cipher with wood elf, 18\8\12\18\18\4. Would this work well or should i put more into dex? Or does anything go for normal, meaning im using more braincells on stuff that dont matter?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Mix-maxing is not necessary, not even for Path of the Damned mode.

For normal mode, no worries.

It can even be a mistake to dump attributes, since enemies prefer targeting your characters with low Deflection and low DR. If dumping RES for the player character, you also lose access to all RES attribute checks during conversation and scripted interactions. Forget about resolving conflicts peacefully with RES 4. And to dump CON for a Cipher makes you very squishy, so you will need to be very careful with all enemies that attack ranged, teleport into the middle of your party or pull a character. For comparison, a Fighter with just CON 8 early in the game can be killed by an enemy caster with a single hit/crit.

Also keep in mind that you may redistribute your player character's attributes at any inn keeper's interface for a bit of gold.

So, in parts you are overthinking it. For normal mode, so much planning is not needed.

[McCloud]

I've only ever played on PotD and min/maxing *at character creation* isn't required so long as you don't dump stats lower than 9. This includes PoE2 when you get to that game; so you don't make another thread there.

On Normal go wild, do whatever you want. Nothing will impact the game negatively from character creation unless you dump a couple (or more) stats down to 5 or something lower. I usually run max Resolve on PotD mainly because I want my character to have resolution! lol

Cavet: I never played with level scaling toggled On when playing the highest difficulty.

[Weewee Smackdown]

One thing to know when building a character is that you don't need to spend points on a stat that a class is not very good at anyway.
I.e. if rolling a fighter or monk, you don't need INT, so you can dump that and put it in a more useful secondary stat like PER. Likewise a wizard or barbarian don't need much RES so you can put that in DEX to make them faster, and they have stuff that make up for poor RES anyway. After that it just comes down to looking at the feats and abilities and picking the ones that best match your play style.
Don't worry too much about other people's builds so much, just pick the ones you know you're going to use if they prove useful to you.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Wackyjim:

One thing to know when building a character is that you don't need to spend points on a stat that a class is not very good at anyway.
I.e. if rolling a fighter or monk, you don't need INT, so you can dump that

That depends on what a fighter you want. INT affects the duration of any effects you cause, including abilities that buff yourself and afflictions you cause to others. For example, if your fighter uses Knock Down to cause Prone status effect to opponents, a good duration of the affliction is nice. To dump INT would reduce the duration too much. The monk class is more dependent on receiving wounds and can work very well with reduced INT and a focus on action speed and damage.

Originally posted by Wackyjim:

and put it in a more useful secondary stat like PER.

PER is primary for an offensive fighter, who possibly wants to aim at higher crit conversion.

Originally posted by Wackyjim:

Don't worry too much about other people's builds so much, just pick the ones you know you're going to use if they prove useful to you.

Yep. Personal playstyle is much more important.

[Heresy]

i dont think you can really lose on normal so it doesnt matter how badly you may mess up a built. Even a completely broken build still seems at least viable in this game unlike most older rpgs.

I remember my first character that i created for hire from the in was a Paladin. I dumped his Intel and at lvl 10 (thats like 40 hours) i finally realised why my paladin could not cast a single spell lmao. He was basically a fighter with no benefits of any kind. Now that was a fail.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Paladin's cannot cast any spells anyway, unless you pick from those few worthwhile ones from the cross-class talents, such as Aspirant's Mark. On the other hand, paladin's don't strictly depend on INT anyway and can learn many abilities that don't depend on INT. --> https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Paladin#Abilities

If you dump INT for them, primarly you cripple the size of their zealot aura, if you want to use that one, but for INT 10 it covers 4.0m already, which is almost two companions on both sides. A companion circle has a radius of 0.5m. And, of course, lower INT reduces the duration of various of their ability effects, if you choose to pick those. Those Exhortations and Sacred Immolation, for example.

[Truen]

Paladins are a great class to play because they anchor groups so well; but, I'm sure by now you've already picked :)

[Mr Hitachi]

Originally posted by Truen:

Paladins are a great class to play because they anchor groups so well; but, I'm sure by now you've already picked :)

I really like the idea of a paladin, but it seems to me he dont dish out as much damage and rather stay in group as a off-tank\support guy. Buffs are really nice though. Do you have any advice on a paladin build that is not min\maxing to much for normal\hard game?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Normal mode doesn't come with any strict requirements. Remember, even PotD mode can be completed with story NPC companions, where you cannot min-max attributes. I suggest offense as the better defense for those modes.

Since one optional story companion is a paladin with 12/13/11/14/13/15 attributes, which is quite versatile, taking that into account can lead to more fun. Then even if you wanted to take her into the party, whether temporarily or permanently, not making your Paladin a copyjob would be the way to go.

Most "builds" are meaningless, since even if they covered the individual equipment to get at level 1 onwards - instead of looking only at a level 16 paladin with best items in the game - you would also need to follow a detailed walkthrough as to know where to go first and where to return to later.

Very important to understand for a main character Paladin is:
https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Faith_And_Conviction
Unless learning Untroubled Faith as a last resort would be okay for you.

Anyway, Paladin class traits are:

Endurance : Average
Health : High
Deflection : Average
Accuracy : Average

Base Deflection is -10 and Accuracy is just -5 compared with a Fighter. And with defensive abilities and talents, not limited to Faith and Conviction and Deep Faith and Superior Deflection, they can push up all four defenses even before they receive support from companions and consumables.

If you want to build a more offensive Paladin rather than a fully defensive defender with weapon'n'shield in heavy armor:
As with Fighters, one can reduce CON and INT a bit and gain some free points to spend elsewhere. CON 7 is the sweet spot where even lower Endurance/Health becomes a risk. For Fighters it is CON 8. With INT, as mentioned in an earlier post, as not to cripple the zealot aura AoE too much in a party based playthrough, probably not go below INT 8. Then, if you don't overdo the min-maxing of the remaining four attributes, you can increase MIG/DEX/PER - and even RES as to compensate the -5 base Deflection.
As for weapon choice, favor single enemy attacks with only one single-handed weapon as to get the implicit +12 Accuracy bonus. Close to other melee warriors of any class. The weapons that restore Endurance on hit are very nice as a fallback. If you want to favor two-handers, raise DEX/PER to 16, at least, and become a heavy user of Sworn Enemy.

[Mr Hitachi]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Normal mode doesn't come with any strict requirements. Remember, even PotD mode can be completed with story NPC companions, where you cannot min-max attributes. I suggest offense as the better defense for those modes.

Since one optional story companion is a paladin with 12/13/11/14/13/15 attributes, which is quite versatile, taking that into account can lead to more fun. Then even if you wanted to take her into the party, whether temporarily or permanently, not making your Paladin a copyjob would be the way to go.

Most "builds" are meaningless, since even if they covered the individual equipment to get at level 1 onwards - instead of looking only at a level 16 paladin with best items in the game - you would also need to follow a detailed walkthrough as to know where to go first and where to return to later.

Very important to understand for a main character Paladin is:
https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Faith_And_Conviction
Unless learning Untroubled Faith as a last resort would be okay for you.

Anyway, Paladin class traits are:

Endurance : Average
Health : High
Deflection : Average
Accuracy : Average

Base Deflection and Accuracy is just -5 compared with a Fighter. And with defensive abilities and talents, not limited to Faith and Conviction and Deep Faith and Superior Deflection, they can push up all four defenses even before they receive support from companions and consumables.

If you want to build a more offensive Paladin rather than a fully defensive defender with weapon'n'shield in heavy armor:
As with Fighters, one can reduce CON and INT a bit and gain some free points to spend elsewhere. CON 7 is the sweet spot where even lower Endurance/Health becomes a risk. For Fighters it is CON 8. With INT, as mentioned in an earlier post, as not to cripple the zealot aura AoE too much in a party based playthrough, probably not go below INT 8. Then, if you don't overdo the min-maxing of the remaining four attributes, you can increase MIG/DEX/PER - and even RES as to compensate the -5 base Deflection.
As for weapon choice, favor single enemy attacks with only one single-handed weapon as to get the implicit +12 Accuracy bonus. Close to other melee warriors of any class. The weapons that restore Endurance on hit are very nice as a fallback. If you want to favor two-handers, raise DEX/PER to 16, at least, and become a heavy user of Sworn Enemy.

Thanks for good advices. For now im playing ranged cipher and having a blast, but my interest for other player classes has grown while playing. So here is another question :P Druid, is it viable to use him as a more frontline dps fighter or like a mix of caster that also can work in frontline if needed. Some of his short ranged spells seems quite nice but more useless in the back.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by MagneticMonkey:

Druid, is it viable to use him as a more frontline dps fighter or like a mix of caster that also can work in frontline if needed. Some of his short ranged spells seems quite nice but more useless in the back.

My usage of druids has been with a focus on their spells, so somebody else may disagree with my view about their melee combat capabilities.

It would be a mistake to keep druids far "in the back", because especially their centered area spells are really nice. If staying directly behind frontline warriors, the AoE can be placed conveniently and efficiently, and the druid would benefit from the small AoE of a Priest's support spells, too, that target warrior neighbors. Cone shaped spells can be sent through gaps in your frontline. Various of the druid's spells can also be used as combat opener, because they can be used outside combat.

On the easier difficulty modes, the druid's spiritshift form is okay as to engage in melee combat. On the harder modes, it is kinda limiting. The major drawback is that it doesn't last long and can only be used once during combat.

Looking at the class traits:

Endurance : Very Low
Health : Low
Deflection : Average
Accuracy : Very Low

Base Deflection "Average" is same than for Cipher, Paladin, Ranger. It's -10 compared with Fighter (not -5 as in my previous post!) and -5 compared with Chanter and Monk. For the Paladin it's much easier to invest into higher defenses. As a full frontliner, you take the risk of being engaged directly. With very low base endurance, oh well, heavy armor wouldn't change much for a druid.

The very low base Accuracy sort of makes it mandatory to focus on using only one 1H weapon, as else it would become necessary to boost your Accuracy regularly.

If at all, I would play a melee druid like a Rogue. As a flanker to contribute attacks on opponents that are engaged by one of your frontliners already or which suffer from serious afflictions already as to reduce their threat.

[Mr Hitachi]

1. So I decided to roll a druid heart orlan-living lands with stats 16-10-12-16-14-10 for hard difficulty. As im staying behind front I guess i dont need higher resolve than 10. For second level i choose weapon mastery peasant and wield only a hatchet and maby a small shield. I kinda wanna go for a quaterstaff later on for rp reasons(in my head druids should have a staff :P) and extended reach. But would picking some defensive talents later on be a good idea? In start of the game i will be using Eder and a custom fighter for frontline.
Btw, i went with wolf shapshit as it seemd like a good gtfo option if things go to hell

2. Im still wrapping my head around this paladin. I know I will do at least 2-3 playthroughs as I enjoy this game alot. And since my other chars are kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥ guys doing what I feel like it would be fun to make the paladin the good guy. Is kind wayfarer or shieldbearer with high resolve the way to go then? I guess I will go as a defensive pala with a little focus on supporting the party.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Hiravias, the companion druid, has attributes 14-13-12-13-15-10. Just for comparison.

Originally posted by MagneticMonkey:

But would picking some defensive talents later on be a good idea?

There are so many to choose from. In addition to defensive support spells and defensive potions.

Several of the talents lead to nice tradeoffs, such as +10 by learning a single talent compared with spending +8 points on an attribute that may be capped at 18. If your base Deflection is low, +5 from Superior Deflection won't be world-changing, but cheaper than +5 Resolve when you also want to raise other attributes.

Due to the Miss/Graze/Hit/Crit system implemented in this game, even if you pushed all four defenses up to high values, a single Graze could cause afflictions with devastating effects. You cannot protect against everything. Your most defensive frontliner may have low Will defense and become the target of mind afflictions.

Overall, investing more into offensive talents leads to increased efficiency in my opinion.

Originally posted by MagneticMonkey:

Is kind wayfarer or shieldbearer with high resolve the way to go then? I guess I will go as a defensive pala with a little focus on supporting the party.

If it's the main character, choose the paladin order based on their favored/disfavored behavior (= disposition) as to benefit from Faith and Conviction bonuses without having to learn Untroubled Faith. If it's a companion, they don't depend on party disposition ranks like the player character and receive slightly weaker Faith and Conviction bonuses.

If you can imagine playing a cruel/aggressive and partially deceptive Bleak Walkers paladin, that one is highly suggested for the extra options in the game. Maybe in another playthrough.