siege of crägholdt

[CaptainChaos]

What the hey-ho? I realize I'm playing hard but huh? I'm 10th Level.

I caused something like 50 points of damage to one of the mercenaries with a 5th level spell that usually kills most things, and I'm not even sure I took a single dot off their hit point totals. Meanwhile, they were causing about 20-30 points of damage routinely even as my pain characters were lucky to do 5-10 points on them.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

It is optional content for strictly high-level characters/party. Full game's level cap is at 16, so at level 10 you should retreat and go elsewhere. First complete The White March I (Stalwart, Durgan's Battery), possibly Act 3 of the base game, then do The White March II, and eventually visit Crägholdt.

[Jernas]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

It is optional content for strictly high-level characters/party. Full game's level cap is at 16, so at level 10 you should retreat and go elsewhere. First complete The White March I (Stalwart, Durgan's Battery), possibly Act 3 of the base game, then do The White March II, and eventually visit Crägholdt.

Yes, but why even give access to an area you can't possibly clean at that current level. There are no warnings, or level suggestions. There are too many points in the game where the current level is not nearly high enough, Raedric's Hold, Spirit of Od Nua, Sky Dragon, etc.

[CaptainChaos]

Yeah, a few times in Cad Nua I was hopelessly outclassed. Ok now I understand. Thanks a lot.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Jernas:

Yes, but why even give access to an area you can't possibly clean at that current level. There are no warnings, or level suggestions.

It is an old school CRPG where most players don't want more hand-holding.

Depending on what player's party can do, player may be able to visit areas/locations earlier than other players. Perhaps using Stealth. Possibly for meta-gaming.

If one starts a new game, one learns about the expansions around level 4-5. On the contrary, if returning players use an old savegame to play the expansions, their characters may be at level 12 already.

Originally posted by Jernas:

There are too many points in the game where the current level is not nearly high enough, Raedric's Hold, Spirit of Od Nua, Sky Dragon, etc.

Raedric's Keep can be visited in Act 1 depending on what your party can do. Particularly, if only visiting Raedric, talking to him and then choosing to turn against Kolsc.

The Endless Paths of Od Nua can be started early, but with each dungeon level, the difficulty increases. Preferably, you don't insist on trying to go down to the bottom at level 5 already, but instead, return to this large dungeon regularly.

The Sky Dragon is an adult dragon, yes, but when you arrive at Twin Elms, your party may be close to the game's level cap, and fighting the dragon is optional, too. Also, player may have chosen easy difficulty or story mode difficulty.

[Jernas]

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, most of all the fact that it doesn't hold your hand as much as most modern games, but I don't think this issue has anything to do with the game being "old school". I think it is a just criticism of occasional difficulty spikes, that ruin the flow of the game. In other words, the game would benefit from making some of the bosses a bit easier to handle.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Feel free to reduce difficulty then.

Some of the early adopters insisted on playing only on Path of the Damned mode for the extra thrill. A few even turned on Trial of Iron.

Also keep in mind that the game can be completed with a lot less than 100 kills in total and less than 10x resting.

[Shadeball]

Originally posted by Jernas:

Yes, but why even give access to an area you can't possibly clean at that current level. There are no warnings, or level suggestions. There are too many points in the game where the current level is not nearly high enough, Raedric's Hold, Spirit of Od Nua, Sky Dragon, etc.

It doesn't metagame by telling you what "level" you should be but the statue giving you the quest does warn that it is a dangerous encounter, likely beyond you at that stage. The other signpost would be the two guards that initially confront you- if you have trouble killing those two at the front gate it is wise to turn back then until you're 14-16.

It's fair to say that Pillars and some similar crpg-style games don't do a great job of signposting difficulty and do have weird spikes. It seems jarring in a narrative sense to be able to flatten a dragon but then get waxed by a few mercenaries. But that's just the type of game it is- you have to be willing to turn back and do something else when you hit a wall.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Shadeball:

get waxed by a few mercenaries.

The Drunken Orlan alone has eliminated many a player's party.

[CaptainChaos]

Ha, that Orlan was amazing.

It's an interesting philosophical question if it's meta gaming to display level, hit points, warning, etc. However, the whole concept of "level" is metagaming in a way. James Bond can be killed a single bullet, but not my squishy mage.

So, if we are going to "break" reality and say that "level" represents uncanny survivability (I suppose JB has that also, where HPs represent the bullet grazing, missing, a lucky dodge, etc.), is it so much to have at least "fair" warning of *some* kind? This could be represented in any number of ways, of Witcher 3 displays of suggested level for a quest, or "you get a shiver down your spine that this area is too dangerous for you" message which sort of is neat.

I'm not criticizing one way or the other. I play Skyim on Master. I LOVE brutal challenge. Just not punishing :) And it's good sometimes to know at least if you have *some* chance, but then again, I see the joy of the surprise also. Geez, I had lowly feral ghouls in Fallout tear me apart, lol. You just never know.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Not knowing in advance how dangerous/fearsome some beasts/foes will be belongs to the role-playing aspects of (C)RPGs. What can you do about it? Tabletop players become familiar with the lore and study creatures in advance, so they are aware of how dangerous forest lurkers may be. In PoE, you can scout ahead, take a peek, then draw conclusions and in case of doubt, launch a test attack from rather safe distance. Shoot with ranged weapons, study the combat log, retreat and flee.

[IRON FIST SOUND DOLPHIN]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Shadeball:

get waxed by a few mercenaries.

The Drunken Orlan alone has eliminated many a player's party.

[Raven Ranks]

I'm level 13 and yeah, I've been here all morning. I'm currently stuck on Serna? The woman with the skeletons inside the keep. I've killed all else up to this point and it's been a struggle.

[CaptainChaos]

I dk I think it's hard or impossible to disengage in these types of games when you are overmatched, that's my only issue. In Skyrim, if you lose 90% of your health after one attack you can always try and run :)

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

If you "are overmatched", you can simply quickload the most recent savegame file and go somewhere else. That's the beauty of computer role-playing. No need to bang your head against a brick wall.

[CaptainChaos]

haha yeah, that's for sure. It's funny. There's one person I have seen throughout various forums that plays Fallout and Skyrim like IronMan. If they lose a life, they restart the whole game. I can't imagine that.