Why can't I get into this game?

[CosmicDan]

Saw that PoE2 preorders are up and was reminded of the original.

I bought the definitive edition ages back, but I never really got too far in the game. Some other exciting game came along and occupied me for a few weeks, then when I came back to PoE I was overwhelmed and confused with where I was up to.

I've started again a few times because of that, but it just keeps repeating.

I'm finding it boring yet I'm also not. I want to like it. I can't quite explain why I like it but also can't play it. I think I'm just finding it too difficult, and too much of a chore to read. Am I just too much of a hyperactive game hopper?

The lore and story seem great, really. I was disappointed with Divity: Original Sin and never bothered with the sequel. But I do feel like I need a good RPG to play again.

Am I just ruined by the more eye-candy and fast-paced mainstream-friendly RPG's of today like Dragon Age: Inquisition and Skyrim (two RPG's that I adored)? I didn't get much into the original Infinity Engine games, I admit, but I loved Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 (not quite the same but close). I also loved Fallout, Arcanum, and some other of those types of cRPG's...

I feel like I'm missing out by not playing this popular and award-winning game. Can anybody identify this pschological barrier I'm facing or do I just need to get over it and let go, accepting that I can't play these games?

Cheers

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Some general hints based on your progress according to your Steam achievements:

1) Avoid establishing soul contact with the kickstarter backer NPCs that have a golden/yellow bordered name plate. The backers contributed short stories that way, which are unrelated and confuse players who are not aware of this unusual "content". Kickstarter backer related tomb stone messages are included in the game, too, but don't add similar confusion.

2) Focus on the main quests. Look up the main quests in the journal regularly. Your achievements have ended with "First 5 Levels of Od Nua", which indicates that you may have tried to go down the Endless Paths of Od Nua before entering the city of Defiance Bay and doing more entertaining stuff there. The Endless paths of Od Nua are a side-quest.

3) You may ignore NPC companions and hire your own custom companions instead at every inn. The NPC companions add extra stuff to read, which is not strictly needed. Their personal quests, which are entirely optional, too, add even more stuff to read, such as a lot of lore you don't need to know.

4) Most book pages and letters you find during exploration are optional. It's not necessary to read them. Quest items are handled in a special way and are stored within the Stash in a special section, too, so you cannot sell or drop those items.

5) Caed Nua, the stronghold, is completely optional. There is absolutely no need to reconstruct anything there.

6) During your travels, eventually you encounter souls in scripted sequences you cannot avoid. Sometimes you only listen and learn. In other cases, you get an opportunity to choose from multiple "answers", which is the game's way how role-players may define the history of your main character's past lives. You are not talking with those souls/ghosts actually. Those conversation choices don't decide on success or failure in any way.

[CosmicDan]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Some general hints based on your progress according to your Steam achievements:

1) Avoid establishing soul contact with the kickstarter backer NPCs that have a golden/yellow bordered name plate. The backers contributed short stories that way, which are unrelated and confuse players who are not aware of this unusual "content". Kickstarter backer related tomb stone messages are included in the game, too, but don't add similar confusion.

2) Focus on the main quests. Look up the main quests in the journal regularly. Your achievements have ended with "First 5 Levels of Od Nua", which indicates that you may have tried to go down the Endless Paths of Od Nua before entering the city of Defiance Bay and doing more entertaining stuff there. The Endless paths of Od Nua are a side-quest.

3) You may ignore NPC companions and hire your own custom companions instead at every inn. The NPC companions add extra stuff to read, which is not strictly needed. Their personal quests, which are entirely optional, too, add even more stuff to read, such as a lot of lore you don't need to know.

4) Most book pages and letters you find during exploration are optional. It's not necessary to read them. Quest items are handled in a special way and are stored within the Stash in a special section, too, so you cannot sell or drop those items.

5) Caed Nua, the stronghold, is completely optional. There is absolutely no need to reconstruct anything there.

6) During your travels, eventually you encounter souls in scripted sequences you cannot avoid. Sometimes you only listen and learn. In other cases, you get an opportunity to choose from multiple "answers", which is the game's way how role-players may define the history of your main character's past lives. You are not talking with those souls/ghosts actually. Those conversation choices don't decide on success or failure in any way.

1) I was wondering what the heck those were about!

2) Yeah I don't remember Defiance Bay much at all. So the game gets a bit more interesting there then? Good to know...

3) Well I found their banter and voice acting kind of helped make things a bit more lively. Do I miss out on companion personal quests for that whole playthrough if I do opt to ignore them?

I've also considered just going with less total party characters and reducing the difficulty, but again - I was worried about missing out on NPC quest line content.

5) Well I found that kind of interesting too, I didn't mind it.

6) Those scripted sequences with choices (e.g. try and help that guy at the start with my bow IIRC or let him break free on his own) were also one of the more interesting parts for me.

I've also seen that there are mods for the game. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Thanks for your input, it's a great help! It seems I am mostly overwhelmed at the lore content more than anything lol.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

3) Their quests are a mixed bag. In my opinion, some add to the immersion and atmosphere. Such as Eder's and Aloth's to begin with. Sagani's, on the contrary, seems just like filler content so the watcher gets an opportunity to use the watcher ability a few times and chase a false track. Durance's personal quest requires player to keep him in the party for a long time and is a pain for players not interested in all the lore and his long ramblings. Kana wants to explore the Endless Paths, which is major distraction for the watcher, and he is lore heavy with regard to stuff not relevant. In Defiance Bay you would meet Pallegina, the Paladin. A story companion to reappear in PoE 2. And finally, Hiravias at Stormwall Gorge can be fetched earlier, but he is a Glanfathan Druid and lore heavy - and keeping him only for some inter-party banter, may require more reading.

6) I refer to soul based contacts with the game's villain. You refer to scripted interactions, which are something different.


About mods, I'm only aware of IE mod, but UI modifications and such don't interest me. Adding The White March 1+2 DLC is strongly recommended, though, because the story of that fully integrated expansion is worthwhile.

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

but the beginning is slow and many of the side quests that open up in Act II distract from the main narrative.

You don't need to do side-quests. You may focus on the main quests and return later for side-quests. If you did that, the main quests would lead you out of Defiance Bay again early to Dyrford.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

I want to do side quests. I just don't want them to ruin the pace of the main story.

Let's see:

1) caravan -> biawac -> Cilant Lis -> need to reach the safety of a village
2) Gilded Vale -> rest at inn -> dwarf woman -> visit Maerwald
3) Caed Nua -> Maerwald -> learn about the Leaden Key -> travel to Church of Woedica
4) Defiance Bay -> Church of Woedica -> Temple of Woedica -> Leaden Key sanctuary
5) stuck

At that point, the trail got cold. The main quest is split into multiple parts, because you need to search multiple places. You could focus on the main quest and keep the pace, instead of wasting time in the city. The sooner you get back on track, the earlier your travels would take you to Twin Elms and Act 3. It can be a rather short act. And Act 4 is short always.

[CosmicDan]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

3) Their quests are a mixed bag. In my opinion, some add to the immersion and atmosphere. Such as Eder's and Aloth's to begin with. Sagani's, on the contrary, seems just like filler content so the watcher gets an opportunity to use the watcher ability a few times and chase a false track. Durance's personal quest requires player to keep him in the party for a long time and is a pain for players not interested in all the lore and his long ramblings. Kana wants to explore the Endless Paths, which is major distraction for the watcher, and he is lore heavy with regard to stuff not relevant. In Defiance Bay you would meet Pallegina, the Paladin. A story companion to reappear in PoE 2. And finally, Hiravias at Stormwall Gorge can be fetched earlier, but he is a Glanfathan Druid and lore heavy - and keeping him only for some inter-party banter, may require more reading.

6) I refer to soul based contacts with the game's villain. You refer to scripted interactions, which are something different.


About mods, I'm only aware of IE mod, but UI modifications and such don't interest me. Adding The White March 1+2 DLC is strongly recommended, though, because the story of that fully integrated expansion is worthwhile.

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

but the beginning is slow and many of the side quests that open up in Act II distract from the main narrative.

You don't need to do side-quests. You may focus on the main quests and return later for side-quests. If you did that, the main quests would lead you out of Defiance Bay again early to Dyrford.

Yeah, Kana going on about those ruins had me believe that I had to explore them as part of some important story. I wasn't too big on the bard in combat either so I might give him a miss.

I wasn't aware there was a story Paladin companion, that was what I was thinking of for my main in my next playthrough. I'll have to rethink that.

And yeah I've got the DLC already, as I said I got the complete edition ages ago - just never got into the game. But I'd like to find a way to enjoy it.

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

I want to do side quests. I just don't want them to ruin the pace of the main story.

Skyrim has the same problem. The side content is disconnected from the main narrative which causes the plot to loses it momentum and sense of importance.

Skyrim (and all Bethesda games, really) succeed in creating a world that feels alive and immerses you, though.

The side quests being disconnected from the main narrative is not something I have a problem with, personally. I dislike "Hero RPG's", where it seems the whole world and all events in it are centered on one particular event/person/problem. BioWare's DA:I was like this too but was an exception for me because it was effectively an apocalyptic setting and I'm a sucker for BioWare's formula of story telling. But I digress.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

I want to do side quests. I just don't want them to ruin the pace of the main story.

Skyrim has the same problem. The side content is disconnected from the main narrative which causes the plot to loses it momentum and sense of importance.

In your opinion, collecting 5 pieces of herb and 2 wolf skins should be "important part of main quest" or somehow "linked to it" ... i'm out of words :D

You sir have absolutely no idea how to develop rpg's, that much is clear.

[SkunkDave]

I'm having the same issue OP. I followed the game coming out, I watched alot of their kickstarter vids and development blogs, I am super impressed with what the team has accomplished and especially the worldbuilding. But at the end of the day I wonder why I ever fell off playing it. Perhaps I have burned through this formula already with BG1+2, Arcanum, etc, or perhaps the gameplay hasn't aged well. To each their own I guess.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

You could focus on the main quest and keep the pace, instead of wasting time in the city.

It would be better if that trade-off didn't exist

Huh? It's not a trade-off. Side-quests are exactly that, unrelated or only slightly related stuff to distract you, but to give you opportunities to gain experience, become stronger, get more wealthy, gain friends and allies. You don't really want a fully linear path where you are forced to do quests in a specific order, do you?

The main quest in Defiance Bay:

1) Heritage Hill district. Going their earlier, you get an opportunity to learn Engwithan language.
2) Brackenbury district sanitarium. It's the same place where Aloth's personal quest takes you.
3) Cliaban Rilag. It's the same place where Eder's personal quest takes you.

And finally you need to find allies within the city as to get invited to the Duc's animancer hearing. Three factions, one fallback option if you mess up everything. What else do you need?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

Side quests should be designed in a way that they don't distract from the main plot.

Where is that defined?

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

First off, these statements are contradictory. Second of all, you acknowledged yourself that you either waste time in Defiance Bay doing unrelated tasks or go to Twin Elms and keep the pace. This is the definition of a trade off. Either miss out on content or suffer from bad pacing.

Nope. If you tried that actually, you would see that there is a roadblock at Stormwall Gorge, which requires you to complete story related missions in Defiance Bay before you could reach Twin Elms. There is absolutely no pacing issue. The world is semi-open, however, so you can explore multiple areas including ones you will travel to later anyway and get distracted early.

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

For the record I like this game, but it does suffer from bad pacing. That's just a fact.

Please, don't repeat the moaning you've done in the ELEX forum. It is a role-playing game. You decide whether to focus on the main plot or whether you take more time to prepare yourself and your companions for a final confrontation. It is also possible to finish the game with a lot less than 100 kills and with resting only a very few times.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by My objectivity will set you free:

Originally posted by Spliff:

In your opinion, collecting 5 pieces of herb and 2 wolf skins should be "important part of main quest" or somehow "linked to it" ... i'm out of words :D

Way to completely misunderstand my point. Read carefully.

Side quests should be designed in a way that they don't distract from the main plot. A fetch quest like that is a perfect example of what not to do. Fallout: New Vegas, another game developed by Obsidian, is a good example of how to do nonlinear game design right. Most of the sidequests in New Vegas are thematically connected to the main questline, done in the process of doing the main questline, or serve as optional ways of advancing the main questline (e.g My Kind of Town, Come Fly With Me, ect.)

POE on the other hand has you deviating far away from your main path to do side content that doesn't connect back to the themes or narrative of the main quest. They only exist as distractions to the themes and narrative of the main quest, and therefore the story has bad pacing.

Honestly the pacing is even worse in the dlc, at least in connection to the main quest of the base game.

At least in the main game the part in defiance Bay where main quest splits into 3 quests, then you gotta gain relations with one of the three factions, is really the time the game gives you to do side quests. It doesn't break pacing too much.

But the dlc is like oh you're tracking down thaos, why don't you take miles detour to this snowy land where you can try and open an ancient dwarf kingdom nobody has opened for hundreds of years for no reason (with no new information or indication you're gonna have any more success than anyone else had for hundreds of years) , and do some side missions helping the towns folk while you're at it, and fight legions of enemies in the meantime.

I can work with the main game pacing with the break off of urgency in defiance Bay, but there's no real roleplay reason to run off gallivanting in another country to open a mine nobody has been able to open and fight packs of monsters (far more than the base game) and unnecessarily risk your life on the off chance that you'll be the guy who manages to open Durgans battery where nobody else could.
If it wasn't a video game where you know there's gonna be a way to open the mine (due to meta gaming) , nobody in their right mind would go off to try and put off the more urgent mission while doing so.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Honestly the pacing is even worse in the dlc, at least in connection to the main quest of the base game.

Which is something completely different.

Originally posted by psychotron666:

But the dlc is like oh you're tracking down thaos,

Worse, you don't even know anything about Thaos yet. One can start the expansion already directly after the Temple of Woedica (Leaden Key meeting) and then forget about the base game for a long time. Admittedly, the Eyeless are a real threat, but what is missing is something that would make the Watcher suffer, if not continueing the main quest for too long.

Amusingly, one can also do the White March and quit the game afterwards.