Flanked Status Answers

[ColorsFade]

People have questioned this mechanic, so I thought I'd give you folks some visual proof about how this funcitons.

Flanked has nothing to do with position. It is entirely based off the engagement status of the creature. Once a creature's engagement limit has been exceeded, that character is considered "flanked" and the status is set. This is why spells, like Cipher's Phantom Foes, do not just set the status to flanked, but it actually adjusts a creature's Engagement status by -10. So Phantom Foes does not do anything to flanked - it changes Engagement.

Further proof in pictures.

The first picture is of my Cipher directly behind an ogre that is paralyzed (so I could verify position). No other creatures are engaging this ogre. You can clearly see in the window this character does not have the flanked status set. Yet I am directly behind it. My character is attacking it, it has the engagement line drawn, and it is the ONLY character attacking the ogre. But the ogre is not flanked.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/70185615@N06/25155603107/

The second picture shows that the Paladin Pellegina has now engaged the creature from the front as well. Two of my party have engaged the ogre (both have engagement lines drawn) which has caused it to exceed its engagement limit of 1. It is now "flanked" not because of position, but because two creatures have engaged it on combat and its limit is 1.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/70185615@N06/39316452764/

And there you have it. Flanking has nothing to do with position. It's engagement limit. Most creatures have a limit of 1, so if you put a tank and a rogue on it it will be "flanked". But position doesn't matter.

The only thing positioning from behind is going to get you, as a rogue or cipher, is avoiding any font-facing cone-type attacks the creature might have (and in that case, it's still a good idea, if you can, to position to the side or rear, out of the cone).

Hope this helps everyone understand this mechanic a bit better.

[nexus1g]

And there you have it. Flanking has nothing to do with position.

The question that sparked this was about relational position. Will two enemies on the same side cause the flanked debuff? Do they have to be opposite of one another? The argument was posed that there's no need to attack from opposing sides when attacking from the same side will work as well.

[nexus1g]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/938307470428646865/3584AF6B016596F1A06F41FE73ADBB16D86A5085/

From the same side doesn't give the flanked debuff. It has to be from the opposite sides.

[nexus1g]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/938307470428664907/DF93D4DC04527EDD17F8C65AB080427892F7D03D/

This shows the same mob with the flanked debuff on with two engagements from opposite sides.

[nexus1g]

There's one last thing to check: Will a creature with 2+ engagements available receive the flanked debuff if there are attackers from opposite sides? I can't check that one.

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by nexus1g:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/938307470428646865/3584AF6B016596F1A06F41FE73ADBB16D86A5085/

From the same side doesn't give the flanked debuff. It has to be from the opposite sides.

This appears to be true in testing.

https://flic.kr/p/23Z3Sdk

I have four characters facing an ogre that I know doesn't have an engagement of 4 and the flank status did not appear.

So I think final answer is: You have to exceed the engagement limit for the creature and have one attacker at the side or behind.

I did try it with a character at the side and it worked. It seems the area considered for frontal is about 120 degree arc. If you're outside of that you're on a "flank" and can get it the status to pop.

But simply flanking a character alone won't do it; you have to exceed the engagement limit.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Yep, the test case and the pictures are incomplete.

1) It has never been claimed that one could cause Flanked affliction with a single character attacking an opponent from behind. If that were possible, it would be like a classic backstab.

2) When attacking an opponent that is engaged already by a companion and hence has reached the engagement limit, where exactly to position the second attacker is the key question.

3) A common tactic has been to engage the enemy with frontliners, then join their flank with a dps damage dealer. How much to move into the back of the enemy to cause Flanked status is the question.

Note that this topic is a bit awkward because it has come up often enough, and only in 2017 the opinions have diverted. In the official forum there is at least one heavy player, who thinks the Flanked status does not only depend on the engagement limit.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

It seems the area considered for frontal is about 120 degree arc. If you're outside of that you're on a "flank" and can get it the status to pop.

Wow. 120 degrees would give quite some freedom and would be an indication that it hasn't been changed in one of the updates afterall.

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

It seems the area considered for frontal is about 120 degree arc. If you're outside of that you're on a "flank" and can get it the status to pop.

Wow. 120 degrees would give quite some freedom and would be an indication that it hasn't been changed in one of the updates afterall.

That's just what I am seeing. It could be as wide as 180 degrees, but I don't think so.

It can be really difficult to tell with these sorts of graphics.

But I think the key things is the question is answered now as to how the mechanic really works. It's engagement limit + position. It's both. And that sort of information is good to know :)

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

It could be as wide as 180 degrees, but I don't think so.

180 degrees looks like the better guess. In the screenshot below, moving the Rogue just a little bit towards Calisca didn't cause Flanked affliction anymore.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1288492012

[nexus1g]

"It's engagement limit + position"

The engagement limit still is in question. That hasn't been tested. We need a mob with 2 engagement limit and 1 attacker and 1 flanker to know if there's a requirement to exceed the engagement limit.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

It probably can be tested by attacking a hired adventurer or Eder.

Keep in mind that the engagement limit must be relevant, or else the Barbarian's One Stands Alone talent or the Cipher's Phantom Foes power would not make sense.

[nexus1g]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

It probably can be tested by attacking a hired adventurer or Eder.

Keep in mind that the engagement limit must be relevant, or else the Barbarian's One Stands Alone talent or the Cipher's Phantom Foes power would not make sense.

I tried it, and it was impossible to get a flanked status on your own party.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

I've retrained Eder, then removed him from the party and visited him in Brighthollow Inn. There you can attack companions as if they were ordinary NPCs, and they turn hostile even. Unfortunately, the game resets him to defaults somehow and even gives him his default weapons. His engagement limit was 1 because of that.

[nexus1g]

Maybe there can be another way found to test it.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Well, you could build a Barbarian with One Stands Alone and then get surrounded by more than three enemies. Wichts or Guls and Darguls come to mind. And the same with a Fighter with Hold the Line and Defender talents.