Desperately Need Help with High Abbot Kaoto (POTD White March 2)

[Brian (The Schmaltzy Cynic)]

Out of all the fights I managed to come through either unscathed or with many scars, the fight with High Abbot Kaoto is absolutely too much, even with my Level 15 party of six. My current party is Eder, Pallegina, Grieving Mother, Durance, a custom druid as an off-tank/mage and a custom glass-cannon rogue.

Granted, I could always tone the difficulty down and/or finish the game for bragging rights, yet I want to experience the final bosses of WM2 on the difficulty I've grown to appreciate. It's mainly the knockback from the tidecasters whom I cannot work around given the limited vantage point from the stairs, so I cannot use the AI pathing against itself like I did with the White Forge fight.

Any suggestions or exploits to make this battle less eggregious would be appreciated.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

You could have chosen to attack him early in the Halls of Presence either during conversation or, for some cheese, explicitly. There is enough room to pull him and his group.

Anyway, simply giving the names of the companions isn't enough. Some players give Eder too many defensive talents and turn him into a heavy armored coward, who hides behind a large shield and tries to survive. He's not helpful then on PotD mode. Pallegina can also be built in various ways.

Looking at your team: No Monk. No summoner like Kana. Who is the primary disabler in your team? GM or the druid? Which druid spells are your favorite ones that make a difference?

[smilehigh]

Do you use Durance for buffing and debuffing? (or just for healing?)

Do you use Aloth and GM for mind-control and debuffing?

Do you use summons to distract enemies?

Do you use Druid for crowd control?

[Brian (The Schmaltzy Cynic)]

I listed the names since I went with their default stats and builds. I definitely did not make Eder a big shield as I gave him several abilities like Sundering Blows to weaken the enemy's DR. Only one that may be different from the norm is I made my Grieving Mother a gunslinger.

My usual tactic is to cast Rapid Lighting and the Petrifying Claw with my Druid, use Domination or Terrify with GM, and apply buffs with Durance. Then I use a lot of AoE attacks that won't damage my units from afar. I also have other nice perks like Consegrated Ground with Pallegina when she is hit, and my rogue restores 20% Endurance when he makes a criticial hit thanks to his stilleto.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Defaults attributes are clear, but meaningless, since one can modify them with equipment, resting bonuses and consumables.

Anyone using scrolls?

Originally posted by smilehigh:

Do you use summons to distract enemies?

Unfortunately, except for summoning figurines, the druid would be the only one to call some greater blights, for example. At this level, Kana's Ogres, Animated Weapons or Monk duplicates would be superior help.

[smilehigh]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by smilehigh:

Do you use summons to distract enemies?

Unfortunately, except for summoning figurines, the druid would be the only one to call some greater blights, for example. At this level, Kana's Ogres, Animated Weapons or Monk duplicates would be superior help.

Yeah, but you don't use figurine summons for damage, you use them to provide temporary distraction.
You can use figurines right at the start of battle whereas to summon Ogres or Animated Weapons with Kana you will need to wait for a lot of time.
Conjure Greater Blights has slow casting time. By the time you cast it your druid may be interrupted and/or disabled (the OP complains about the knockback effect). And it's probaly better to cast Relentless Storm first anyway.

Figurines allow you to gain a bit of time to regroup, cast protection/buffing spells on party while temporarily distracting at least some enemies.

The downside is that you can't summon other creatures while the figurine summons are alive.
So it's more of a question of how much time you have for casting and summoning something more serious.

That said nothing prohibits you to cast duplicates, tentacles, blights, ogres, etc. at some point in this battle.

Personally I've never had much trouble with this fight without having a monk or chanter in the party, though I'll grant you that this is a battle that keeps you on your toes and doesn't forgive lazy off-hands attitude. But there are so many ways to approach every encounter in this game.

[Kinoringan]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Some players give Eder too many defensive talents and turn him into a heavy armored coward, who hides behind a large shield and tries to survive. He's not helpful then on PotD mode.

Pardon me for asking but isn't that how one suppose to build a tank? Give Eder all the defensive talents and then during fight let him grab all the agro and tank while your other 5 people dps the enemies to death?

[Batbro]

Originally posted by Kinoringan:

Pardon me for asking but isn't that how one suppose to build a tank? Give Eder all the defensive talents and then during fight let him grab all the agro and tank while your other 5 people dps the enemies to death?

If Eder can't reliably hit the enemies, they may not stick on him. They'll risk the ineffective disengagement attack from him to attack the squishy wizard killing them. Besides that, you obviously want his accuracy to be good enough to actually land his knockdowns or other CC.

[Kinoringan]

Originally posted by Batbro:

Originally posted by Kinoringan:

Pardon me for asking but isn't that how one suppose to build a tank? Give Eder all the defensive talents and then during fight let him grab all the agro and tank while your other 5 people dps the enemies to death?

If Eder can't reliably hit the enemies, they may not stick on him. They'll risk the ineffective disengagement attack from him to attack the squishy wizard killing them. Besides that, you obviously want his accuracy to be good enough to actually land his knockdowns or other CC.

That I can understand but the way D'amarr from Darshiva posted it felt to me like he disapproved tank build character.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Kinoringan:

That I can understand but the way D'amarr from Darshiva posted it felt to me like he disapproved tank build character.

It's more than that. I disapprove the terms "tank" or "tank build" and some other similar terms, too, because in this game the class traits lay the foundation already - base Health, Endurance, Accuracy, Deflection - and simply choosing attributes and talents doesn't change that.

The Fighter class is durable enough to survive well without using a shield or related talents. Since Eder is a Fighter, too, that also applies to him - contrary to what some grumpy players claim when they talk about "builds" and min-maxing. In the case of Eder, he's even a Fighter with high CON 16 and increased RES 13, no attribute below 10, and his MIG 16 shall not be wasted.

One cannot "grab all the aggro" as you call it. There are no talents in this game to achieve that. Not even Barbarian Yell is like a taunt. You may pull a very few enemies towards you, but engagement doesn't bind them to you. If they disengage, because AI decides that your companions with lower DR and lower defenses are more worthwhile targets, they will do that. And then you benefit from sufficient Accuracy and talents to improve the free disengagement attacks. An increased number of engagement slots also doesn't "grab all the aggro", but only helps with avoiding Flanked status plus getting potentially more free disengagement attacks in case of enemies switching targets.

This game is all about status effects. Positive status effects on your side, such as from consumables or resting bonuses, and afflictions on your opponents. And because of the Miss/Graze/Hit/Crit system, high Accuracy is mandatory, and high defenses don't save you from receiving a single Graze that causes devastating status effects.

That said, what makes this topic interesting is the the combination of companions.

[mainer]

Played this battle last weekend, and while it was tough, I found it manageable on normal difficulty. The most difficult part for me was the beginning. Everyone was peaceful until I freed the low tide monks on the lower level. I reached the tower from the stairs on the main level, and when I exited the door, a conversation was initiated and grouped all my characters in an unorganized clump. Once the conversation was over and the combat started, Kato & his monks bullrushed us, and it took several miniutes to battle and reqroup.

Party: My Ranger/Wolf, Durance, Eder, Aloth, Zuha, Manela. Durance spent the entire battle buffing/healing/and resurecting. Eder & Manela concentrated on Kato & his duplicates. Aloth cast Confusion a couple of times to reduce the amount of enemies we faced. Zuha punched & kicked everyone else. My ranger was useless, until he broke free of the mob and found a space to the right, then pelted everyone with arrows, also stunning some.