Cipher: Pike vs Dual Wield

[Light Shift]

Going to be running a Cipher for my first playthrough, with 90% of the time using ranged (blunderbuss). However, curious on what is more valuable for a backup melee set? On one hand, dual wield’s speed would probably build focus pretty fast but on the other hand it woul put me too close to the action (especially with light armor). Or do i run with a Pike? The fact that I can hide behind my tanks will be helpful for damage reduction, but even though my hits might pack a little more punch, would I be building focus as fast as dual wield with a 2h thats much slower?

For reference, I’m placing my cipher’s value for being ranged and throwing spells, so melee only when needed.

[ColorsFade]

You're already at range with the blunderbuss and you're already going to be in the 2nd row at choke points. It makes zero sense to use a Pike since it's also a piercing weapon.

If you want a second weapon set, and melee, then use blunts for Crush damage. There are a lot of mobs in the game that are immune (or have higher armor) against peirce and slash. Having crush as a backup is crucual to being able to contribute to damage.

Personally, I would favor a big 2H crush weapon. Damage = Focus. If you're switching to crush to aid in damage, you're going to be in melee range. So it won't matter if you go with a reach weapon or not.

You have Psychovampiric Shield, and later Borrowed Instinct, so you can be as good as a tank defensively anyway.

I wrote a guide on melee Cipher if you ever feel like reconsidering the Blunderbuss route.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1293352068

[Light Shift]

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

You're already at range with the blunderbuss and you're already going to be in the 2nd row at choke points. It makes zero sense to use a Pike since it's also a piercing weapon.

If you want a second weapon set, and melee, then use blunts for Crush damage. There are a lot of mobs in the game that are immune (or have higher armor) against peirce and slash. Having crush as a backup is crucual to being able to contribute to damage.

Personally, I would favor a big 2H crush weapon. Damage = Focus. If you're switching to crush to aid in damage, you're going to be in melee range. So it won't matter if you go with a reach weapon or not.

You have Psychovampiric Shield, and later Borrowed Instinct, so you can be as good as a tank defensively anyway.

I wrote a guide on melee Cipher if you ever feel like reconsidering the Blunderbuss route.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1293352068

You know, I was actually reading over this last night! Thanks for all of the tips here.

With a melee build, is it squishy in the first act of the game, or is it relatively okay as long as I build my party right?

Also, in the article you mention pike/greatsword - (sorry, new to the game) being that its a pike and greatsword I wont have any crush damage right? Is that something I should keep in mind and consider if I go with this build, or does this build not really need it?

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by Light Shift:

You know, I was actually reading over this last night! Thanks for all of the tips here.

With a melee build, is it squishy in the first act of the game, or is it relatively okay as long as I build my party right?

If you have Eder and another tank (I hire a Paladin merc myself) then that gives you two tanks to handle engagement/front-line fighting. From that point you just play the Cipher like a Rogue, flanking and attacking after the tanks have engagement. You shouldn't get hit much.

Your starting focus will be low until you get Greater Focus, so for the first 3-4 levels of the game you're building focus with hits before you can cast. Once you get to 20-Focus to start, then you can start casting early and fighting after. Getting Whisper of Treason or Psychovampiric off first and then swinging weapons makes a huge difference and makes the class totally fun to play.

Originally posted by Light Shift:

Also, in the article you mention pike/greatsword - (sorry, new to the game) being that its a pike and greatsword I wont have any crush damage right? Is that something I should keep in mind and consider if I go with this build, or does this build not really need it?

You won't have any crush damage with that combo, no. You get Pierce and Slash. But you get Ectopsychic Echo, which does crush, and as a melee fighter you are in way better position (as opposed to a range Blunderbuss type in the end row) to move around and really make that spell shine. It will do a ton of Crush damage if you position yourself well and/or move around with it. Boots of speed with this character and this spell totally rule.

If you end up in an area where you know you're going to fight a lot of enemies vulnerable to Crush, then you swap out the Greatsword (or take a 3rd weapon set). Always leave the Pike in #2 slot for ranged attack from 2nd row when fighting in narrow choke points.

[smilehigh]

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

Your starting focus will be low until you get Greater Focus, so for the first 3-4 levels of the game you're building focus with hits before you can cast.

Why don't you take Greater Focus as your first talent?

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by smilehigh:

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

Your starting focus will be low until you get Greater Focus, so for the first 3-4 levels of the game you're building focus with hits before you can cast.

Why don't you take Greater Focus as your first talent?

You can do that.

I've been too busy playing PoE2 past couple of weeks to remember the mechanics exactly :)

[Nichtswisser]

Hatchet + Shield

A Cipher is not going to be a great melee combatant and the biggest problem will be survivability. Hatchets give +5 Deflection and add in a shield + the bonus from "Sword and shield style" and your Cypher just might be able to not go down imediately in melee.

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by Nichtswisser:

Hatchet + Shield

A Cipher is not going to be a great melee combatant and the biggest problem will be survivability. Hatchets give +5 Deflection and add in a shield + the bonus from "Sword and shield style" and your Cypher just might be able to not go down imediately in melee.

You didn't read my guide did you? You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

I wrote the guide on Melee Cipher man. I played it a ton. Like A LOT. I'm not talking out my rear end here... I have hours and hours of play with a melee Cipher.

You don't need a stinking shield...

That's what Psychovampiric Shield and Borrowed Instinct are for. You cast those to start a battle and you can have defensive stats just like a tank. Pull of Defensive Mindweb in the late game and your whole party is God.

When you don't have those defenses up, you play it like a Rogue. You flank.

It's a great class played this way.