Might affecting magical damage is freaking stupid

[Uncle Nastyfingers]

So a mage who has spent his life studying in a tower is a roided out physical beast. Really damages the game's immersion.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Not such a topic again. Horse has been beaten to death several times before. Look up ancient topics about attribute overloading and avoiding dump attributes. It shouldn't hurt immersion, if you do role-playing.

Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense.

[Undead Rufus]

As the game describes it, "Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense."

Emphasis added.

While your complaint is one that has come up many times, there are many others like me who actually appreciate the flexibility this sytems allows. Yes, you can build a "roided out physical beast" of a wizard if you want, though at the expense of other attributes. And why not? Who says mages have to be spindly recluses who care for nothing outside their studies?

[Cutlass Jack]

Its not stupid. You're using preconceptions of what the stat is based stats from other games. Its not a stat that rates your muscle density. Its a more general stat that represents how much power you can put behind your abilities. No matter what those abilites are.

Every stat in this game has use for every class. Might is no exception. Its relevant to all damage focused builds.

[psychotron666]

I get the practicality of it, but when your wizard uses it in conversation he grabs guys and lifts them off the ground or twists their arms, which breaks roleplay immersion for me. After finding out might did that I just simply stopped using it in conversations though and roleplay was fine.

[ColeTrain1034]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

I get the practicality of it, but when your wizard uses it in conversation he grabs guys and lifts them off the ground or twists their arms, which breaks roleplay immersion for me.

There's nothing forcing you to choose to do that. Just because it's an option, doesn't mean it's who your Wizard is. If you don't want your Wizard to lift people off the ground, then just don't.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

I get the practicality of it, but when your wizard uses it in conversation he grabs guys and lifts them off the ground or twists their arms, which breaks roleplay immersion for me. After finding out might did that I just simply stopped using it in conversations though and roleplay was fine.

Ever played D&D? Your Wizard could be enhancing his physical strength with magic energy. Or The Force/whatever. It isn't that immersion breaking if you add a sprinkle of imagination to justify game mechanics. The way the Attributes work is this basically make it so every stat is helpful and a solid choice to invest in. Min/Maxing is still a thing but much less of a pendulum compared to D&D etc.

Personally I don't care for this Attribute System ... but I'm probably biased due to years of AD&D, Pathfinder, Shadowrun etc.

[Crom]

Originally posted by Anton Jackson:

So a mage who has spent his life studying in a tower is a roided out physical beast. Really damages the game's immersion.

You understand nothing dude.

On Attributes did Obsidian pretty good work.

And the Might is absolutly well maded attribute.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Setzway:

Your Wizard could be enhancing his physical strength with magic energy. Or The Force/whatever. It isn't that immersion breaking if you add a sprinkle of imagination to justify game mechanics.

Yeah, such as the mystery of psychokinesis and telekinesis performed by magicians.

And yes, Might also increases the physical damage done by a wizard with ordinary weapons, but that is meaningless, because it doesn't turn wizards into fighters. There is no strength requirement for weapons and armor. A high Might wizard is still missing the class traits of a fighter - no matter whether player wants the wizard to be well-trained and in superior physical condition.

With the example of the iron bars at the entrance to the sewers below Raedric's Keep, you may choose to use a pry bar with anyone, but if you choose the Might option with a wizard, it doesn't need hands to bend the bars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV2zSjWivQ8

Also read --> https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Uses_of_Might_in_interactions

[Pherdnut]

I like the game but I have to agree that it's absolutely dumb to conflate physical and all other forms of strength into one stat. I feel similarly about all barbarians needing to be really smart in order for their hits to apply to a wider radius.

[Pherdnut]

Originally posted by Setzway:

And yes, Might also increases the physical damage done by a wizard with ordinary weapons, but that is meaningless, because it doesn't turn wizards into fighters.

They're no joke at melee with that staff spell and arcane veil. Definitely one of the stronger melee wizard classes in any classed fRPG I've ever played.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Pherdnut:

I like the game but I have to agree that it's absolutely dumb to conflate physical and all other forms of strength into one stat. I feel similarly about all barbarians needing to be really smart in order for their hits to apply to a wider radius.

Might isn't sumb, plus it's not the first time it's being used in a ruleset. The context of the class defines the type of power. For a mage might is magic, for a fighter it's strength, it's valid, as long of course as classes have separate abilities so that there is no confusion.

About intelligence, that's a bad wording, it should have being named cunning.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by ColeTrain1034:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

I get the practicality of it, but when your wizard uses it in conversation he grabs guys and lifts them off the ground or twists their arms, which breaks roleplay immersion for me.

There's nothing forcing you to choose to do that. Just because it's an option, doesn't mean it's who your Wizard is. If you don't want your Wizard to lift people off the ground, then just don't.

I know that's why I said I simply stopped using it in conversation.

Originally posted by Setzway:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

I get the practicality of it, but when your wizard uses it in conversation he grabs guys and lifts them off the ground or twists their arms, which breaks roleplay immersion for me. After finding out might did that I just simply stopped using it in conversations though and roleplay was fine.

Ever played D&D? Your Wizard could be enhancing his physical strength with magic energy. Or The Force/whatever. It isn't that immersion breaking if you add a sprinkle of imagination to justify game mechanics. The way the Attributes work is this basically make it so every stat is helpful and a solid choice to invest in. Min/Maxing is still a thing but much less of a pendulum compared to D&D etc.

Personally I don't care for this Attribute System ... but I'm probably biased due to years of AD&D, Pathfinder, Shadowrun etc.

Yeah I get that too but itd help if my character actually had any spells that increased his physical strength in his repertoire. Though the imagination thing does help out sufficiently for me.

[Cutlass Jack]

Originally posted by Pherdnut:

I like the game but I have to agree that it's absolutely dumb to conflate physical and all other forms of strength into one stat. I feel similarly about all barbarians needing to be really smart in order for their hits to apply to a wider radius.

Again its about every stat being valid for every class. You don't need to do a super intelligent barbarian. Its just one possible build. And it allows you to get creative with your character concepts.

For example I did a character with the scientist background who was a 'barbarian' because she had anger issues. Not because she was from a tribal barbarian culture. She was really the group mechanic, who just tended to flail around wildly in combat.

But an average or even low int 'traditional' barbarian is equally valid. The entire system is designed to put things in the hands of the player. If your concept is a 'monk' who wears platemail and uses firearms, the game wont stop you.

I'll agree the stats could have been named better. But I love the fact that there's no predetermined dump stats for each class. Only for the build you pick.

[ColeTrain1034]

Complaints about Might in this game boil down to two things: preconceived notions of what a Wizard "should be," and lack of imagination in roleplaying. There's nothing in this universe that insinuates Wizards have to be frail bookworms that can't hold their own in a physical fight. But, because that's what RPGs have done for years, close-minded gamers refuse to accept a new way of looking at things. But, even so, playing a frail bookworm with high Might is still extremely doable in this game. Literally all it takes is the decision to ignore physically aggressive dialogue choices, or the ability to roleplay in a way that has those choices suit your needs. Those who refuse to do that are just being too uptight. For pete's sake, they even call it "Might" instead of "Strength," so that there's the potential to interpret it however you want.

Mechanically, the way Oblivion uses Might in this game leaves room for flexibility in character design. It's ironic to me when people complain about it "making" them play a character a certain way. This mechanic actually gives you more freedom than most RPGs.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Pherdnut:

Originally posted by Setzway:

And yes, Might also increases the physical damage done by a wizard with ordinary weapons, but that is meaningless, because it doesn't turn wizards into fighters.

They're no joke at melee with that staff spell and arcane veil. Definitely one of the stronger melee wizard classes in any classed fRPG I've ever played.

Not Setzway's quote. I wrote that.

Anyway, summoned universal wizard weapons aren't too special. Wizard still needs to cast more spells to boost fighting powers, or else it's necessary to hide in second row. Meanwhile, real warriors can jump into the fray immediately. Wizard class's base traits: Very Low Endurance, Low Health, Very Low Deflection, Very Low Accuracy. You cannot compensate that with attributes alone.

Sorcerer in The Witcher:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=759476634