lack of challenge

[dbennett88]

did anyone else find normal mode especially cakewalky? not what I'm used to in an IE game. playing thru hard now, which is a bit better, but still feels kinda like autopilot. why is the game so easy?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

A better question would be:
''Why the heck have you mentioned stats twice now, even tho they can be respecced by spending a few coins''

Dunno why you would think that to be a "better question". Better than what?
1) The attributes of NPC companions cannot be retrained, and while it is possible to retrain their talents, abilities and skills, it is also possible to build and use companions in ways they become too inefficient.
2) Looking at the base stats of the classes can help a lot when deciding on how to build and use a character.
3) I would not cripple a Chanter with MIG 3.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

I'll also be sure to check Wizards spells better, and this time also include the ones with less then useful effects.

You must be kidding. It seems you've only looked at doing damage with your wizard instead of understanding the usefulness of afflictions. But even various damage spells are not cone-shaped.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

The main point in that regard however, stands regardless. Characters move at lightning speed compared to attack or spellcasts, making it exceedingly hard to position characters or abilities.

That is because of your focus on trying to "catch" moving enemies inside a spell's area of effect and additionally trying to avoid friendly fire of spells that would hurt allies. It's much more advisable to target non-moving enemies, which are engaged by your frontliners, by your summons or stuck/prone/paralyzed/slowed or hindered by a druid's spell.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Yes, characters can use heavy armor even as a caster. But Deflection isnt nearly as easy to cap as Armor Class was. Plus given how attack speed effects casters just as much, its still a big penalty.

Armor doesn't influence Deflection at all, and I wouldn't give my wizards heavy armor, but if you want to turn Durance into more of a warrior priest, you cannot avoid better armor or even a shield. And yes, he's slow, but if his job is only to stay close to a frontliner and cast support spells there - some with a small AoE - he can do fine, and Kana too. Someone, who wants a more capable Priest (with a different god) or Chanter, can hire one.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Honestly, part of my reason for responding was on the off-chance that I just missed some really obvious stuff, but judging on your reply (which doesnt tell me anything new), I didnt.

Stay honest. Claiming things like "Cone only magic means you need to do a lot of running with your wizard" is just not true.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

It would of helped the game if you could plan a character build with future talent/ability/spell choices being visible ahead of time.

That's true. You could look up the classes and talents/abilities in the Wiki:
http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Official_Pillars_of_Eternity_Wiki

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

It's great that people say ''it becomes better on a second playthrough when you know the encounters and what works'' but I dont want to play through an entire game just so I can have fun the second time around.

If you only want to play it once, it is perfectly playable at Normal or even Hard mode. A single playthrough is not enough to experience everything, though. Too many classes, talents, spells. And enough choices in the game to increase the replayability factor.

Did you choose Path of the Damned, Expert and Trial of Iron modes in your first playthrough already? I doubt that. You don't need to create your own database for enemy stats and weaknesses either. No need to write down notes, so next time you fight the same enemy, you know what to do. But hardly anyone will be an expert already in the first playthrough, and so one learns some things that make subsequent playthroughs much more interesting.

[Ehra]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

I'll also be sure to check Wizards spells better, and this time also include the ones with less then useful effects. The main point in that regard however, stands regardless. Characters move at lightning speed compared to attack or spellcasts, making it exceedingly hard to position characters or abilities.

In most cases they just swarm the front line characters you send at them. Just wait a few seconds for all of the enemies to engage and stop running around and you can safely start throwing out your spells. Learning how to position your properly properly to setup the enemy for your backline really is a player issue.

Proper use of even level 1 spells can pretty much win fights early on. Chill Fog alone is ridiculously good (and isn't a cone, btw).

----------

I could see 6 characters being too much if your entire party were made up of micromanagement heavy classes. But not every class/character needs to babysat by the player (and in some cases, like the Fighter, they straight up don't have very many active abilities even if you DID want to micromanage them). Realistically, you probably only have 3-4 characters in your party who need any real sort of mid combat micromanagement, while the remaining charactersjust need to be positioned properly then can be pointed at enemies for the rest of the fight.

Basically, if you think 6 characters is too many to handle then run more Fighters, Chanters, and Barbarians.

[MACIORELLA]

If its too easy try to play with only 2 or 3 party members. Wont be easy then....

[lief]

I played the whole game on normal and I find it challenging (not impossible, just the right bilance).

I still had to leave these dragons alive:
Sky Dragon, Adra Dragon, Alpine Dragon
because there are too strong for me. But I could still complete quests related to those dragons since you can talk and resolve with skills check.

Today I discovered that you need to kill Alpine Dragon if you want Ryona's Breastplate to reach the last level... This is my only complain because I was forced to play on easy to kill the Alpine Dragon.

Actually one time I got really close on normal... It was the last o of life... But I was not able to replicate that.

I think Pillars of Eternity is not too difficult or too easy, and I like that you can leave everyone alive and still complete every quests... That's why I don't like Ryona's Breastplate quest. I was forced to kill Alpine Dragon.

No, they should not make it more difficult.

[Armanz]

Originally posted by nicofede.1993:

Today I discovered that you need to kill Alpine Dragon if you want Ryona's Breastplate to reach the last level... This is my only complain because I was forced to play on easy to kill the Alpine Dragon.

With WM 1+2 installed you can pretty much steamroll every enemy if you level up enough except maybe the double dragon encounter. If something's too hard just come back with level 16. I'm rather bad at the game but beating Adra and Alpine on 16 was a piece of cake.

[lief]

Originally posted by Armanz:

With WM 1+2 installed you can pretty much steamroll every enemy if you level up enough except maybe the double dragon encounter. If something's too hard just come back with level 16. I'm rather bad at the game but beating Adra and Alpine on 16 was a piece of cake.

you are right and wrong at the same time. it is true that you can respec your party to defeat a dragon and it will be easy (I tried again this morning and, after a respec of my party, I was able to defeat the Alpine Dragon at Normal difficult. And it was almost easy).
But then you will need to respec your party again because you will get a party with no skills to talk, find traps, etc...
Before the respec my party was awesome to "stealth" PoE, now it is really bad to do that but I was able to defeat the Alpine dragon.
I will go back to my previous build because I don't like to play with no "talk" skills.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Armanz didn't write anything about retraining the characters, only that doing those fights at level 16 gives the party a noticable advantage.

About retraining, I disagree. There are only two combat-oriented skills, Athletics and Survival. You don't gain much by increasing them for a single fight. And one party member would need to invest all skill points into Mechanics anyway, because some traps and locks require a very high skill, and any point spent into Stealth would be wasted.

[lief]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Armanz didn't write anything about retraining the characters, only that doing those fights at level 16 gives the party a noticable advantage.

About retraining, I disagree. There are only two combat-oriented skills, Athletics and Survival. You don't gain much by increasing them for a single fight. And one party member would need to invest all skill points into Mechanics anyway, because some traps and locks require a very high skill, and any point spent into Stealth would be wasted.

And I said that I was not able to defeat the Alpine Dragon with my old party that was similar to the one I've right now but with high Mechanics, Stealth, Lore, Perception etc...
I disagree, with a full party of high Athletics and Survival it was a piece of cake (same talents and spells).

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Perception is an attribute. You can only retrain the attributes of hired adventurers, not those from NPC companions. So, if your hirelings had low PER, that can be an issue, of course, since PER also affects spell Accuracy.

High Lore can be helpful, however, so one or more companions can use scrolls.

High Athletics only gives you Second Wind, which is no better than drinking a healing potion or receiving healing support from a Priest/Druid/Paladin.

High Survival : which of its resting bonuses did you choose? Accuracy against Beast perhaps? Or increased Consumable Duration? And did you rest in addition to getting resting bonuses from an inn?

[Armanz]

Before the respec my party was awesome to "stealth" PoE, now it is really bad to do that but I was able to defeat the Alpine dragon.
I will go back to my previous build because I don't like to play with no "talk" skills.

Retraining those skills doesn't really benefit you later on since you have access to the best Healing Potions...maybe completely maxing out Athletics gives you a slightly better healing power than a max potion but you can only use it once. Same for the Revival with Second Chance. Maybe you lack some specific type of knowledge for Afflictions or positioning or something else I'm not sure. I'm very bad at the game myself, so I can't really give advice x)
On Lvl 12 I couldn't nearly beat Adra or Alpine dragon. On lvl 16 I did it in 1 try, not even using food that much (1 Dragon Meat Dish for everyone, that was it). I didn't even use the Item you get from pretending to help the Adra Dragon, that weakens dragons. The one thing that helps a lot for noobs like me is that Lvl 7 time-out stasis shell thing that Ciphers have. Use it against the dragon and it gives you 30 seconds of time to kill the minor enemies like Xaurips the Adra has or the Blights and stuff the Alpine has.
Paralysis and Petrification is op against those Dragons btw.

[lief]

I will say it for the last time. I was able to defeat Alpine Dragon with a party respec.
My party was focused on Stealth, Lore and Mechanics. My Athletics and Survival were really low (I was still able to finish the game on Normal difficulty. I was only not able to kill Dragons but I didn't want to kill Dragons since you can talk to them).
My role play was "avoid fight if you can", and it was working.
I only started the white march few days ago, but I already finished the base games months ago.
I killed the Alpine Dragon just to complete the last quest of Ryona's Breastplate soulbound armor. At that point I already ended the Alpine Dragon quest with 17 Resolve points (that I got with food + stronghold bonus).
But this was not what I wanted to do (there was no reason to kill the Alpine Dragon after the end of the quest His Better Half).
I think Ryona's Breastplate request is strange and should have an alternative path.

[Chrono]

ohhh im su guuud game is suu ezzzz on norms....ohhh ehhh ahhhh ohhh der are harder options to pik fwom? ohh eeeeee aaaaaaa suu eaazzzzyy

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by nicofede.1993:

I will say it for the last time. I was able to defeat Alpine Dragon with a party respec.

That doesn't answer the questions, though. What from the Survival skill did help you the most during the fight? Accuracy bonus? Increased consumable duration? DR bonus? Athletics only gives you Second Wind, which indicates you haven't had access to good healing from alternative sources.

[lief]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

That doesn't answer the questions, though. What from the Survival skill did help you the most during the fight? Accuracy bonus? Increased consumable duration? DR bonus? Athletics only gives you Second Wind, which indicates you haven't had access to good healing from alternative sources.

I don't know. I think I was just able to tank more.
I was able to use more buffs with my priest (before I was forced to only use cure and resurrection spells), on my paladin and on my barbarian. And I was able to use more of my wizard support spells (not just damage).
Also I was able to use charm/petrify on the dragon (I was not able to do that before, maybe because I was not able to use many buffs and many supportive spells).
Before the respec I was not able to last more than 2 attacks (even at lv 16) with my wizard.
I used the same tactics I used before... I used traps on the floor and I started the fight with my tanks in 2 different directions (with the priest close but not enough to die).
I didn't use foods or potions (because before I was not able to use potion like I was not able to use buffs (and foods alone was not enough to make a difference), after because I didn't need to try more than one time).

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Odd.

I've never before used a trap in this game. I like the Priest's seals, on the other hand.

Second Wind restores 25 Endurance +5*skill rank, but once only, and you have to use it actively. You could drink one of the better healing potions instead that restore a lot of Endurance, provided you are not interrupted. Five potions of the same type fit into a quick item slot. Much better than Second Wind. - http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Skill

Anyway, interesting that you believe the Athletics skill has helped you so much. A fearless Fighter would not even need to wait for fear protection for the Priest and could read a scroll or gulp a helpful potion.

It seems you've come much too close to the dragon with your casters.