Barbarians not flexible enough?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Edit 1: Found one enjoyable PotD frontline Barbarian based on 10,10,18,10,12,18 attributes using a single 1H weapon (Sabre for Ruffian spec) and light but enhanced armor. Good survivability (zero knockouts so far) and damage. Planning ahead for We Toki battle axe would be an idea.

Edit 2: Started from scratch with another front Barb with the base attributes shifted a bit to 10,10,14,15,14,15. Used Knight weapons not Ruffian. Damage is similar up to level 8. Stopped at that point. Survivability has been good, too, but I've played a bit more slowly to have the entire party with zero knockouts.

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As a followup to "naked barbarians", I've given one a try, too.

Barbarian is the class I struggle with the most, if playing at PotD mode from level 1 onwards.

Let's see. Their low base Deflection is 15 points below a Fighter. That is a lot in all the early fights. You get hit a lot, if you jump into the fray. It's not easy to compensate the low defense. Assume you raise RES to a whopping 18, Deflection is still 7 points below a happy Fighter with RES 10. It's also some time before you get a good shield that doesn't decrease Accuracy. But with a shield, you don't get the +12 Accuracy bonus for using only one single-handed weapon, and that bonus would be really beneficial because your Accuracy is -5 compared with a Fighter or Rogue. You miss a lot, also with a two-handed weapon and high PER, and you cannot raise PER a lot because you need the points for other attributes.

So, I've sacrificed defenses and CON to make the barbarian attack from the second line with a quarterstaff. Or a pike, which requires a different weapon focus. It's a pain to micro-manage. Much worse than a Rogue, because for Carnage you want to engage enemies with neighbours.

Is anyone really happy with Barbarians when starting at level 1 and PotD? - I'm mostly interested in true personal experience or objectiveness. Most guides are controversial. If someone only hires a level 12 barbarian and gives him some enchanted equipment and think he's brilliant without playtesting him on PotD from the ground up, that's not interesting.

Whenever I retrain, I come back to a 1H weapon frontliner in heavy armor with high CON and increased defenses, who is positioned between two Fighters (or warriors in general) as to avoid easy flanking - and One Stands Alone some levels later doesn't do wonders as it only increases melee damage.

Maneha's attributes are 18,15,9,12,13,11. That goes into a similar direction, but her attribute distribution is somewhat undecided, and she requires tons of support.

[Gregorovitch]

I played a barbarian as my PC in my first PotD run (which I stopped just orior to the finale to wait for WM2, but ended up starting again recently) and I would say I found it slightlky more enjoyable comapared to my first outing as dual wield rogue and latest as druid.

Memory of the early game with my barb is hazy, but I'll try, first though the end result:

My standard set up was

......Pallegina.......................Eder
.......................My Barb
......Sagani.......Durance........Aloth
.......................Itumaak

In this formation my barb would normally open with a yell, after when it became clear what the ememy were going to do could move forward between Eder and Pallegina to engage a central group, move to left or right flanks either to engage a tight group for carnage purposes or to head off a flanking manouvre, or remain mid-party to deal with infiltrations, such as shadows etc. Itumaak was positioned wityh simnlar flexibiliity in mind.

My barb was 2H for max carnage damage output - I tried dual wielding but found the carnage output was far less than 2H, particularly with the Forgemaster's glove equipped. I used heavy armour for survivability initally, but IIRC I used a very good piece of medium armour later on.

In short, mobility and flexibility was key so i could either defend the back line or hunt packs for carnage application. I found this very enjoyable and exiting to play. Very, very effective too. I would say this was my most lethal party largely due to the collosal carnage damage output of my barb.

Now at the beginning I was obviously just up alongside Eder and I am struggling to recall exactly how I kept my barb alive. I beleive it went roughly like so:

Eder led on his own and engaged as many as possible initially. I was stationed one rank behind him next to Kana IIRC with Durance and Aloth behind us. Kana would play off tank and move to block enemies that eluded Eder and I would manouvre to attack a suitably tight group engaging either Eder or Kana from the flank whilst Aloth concentrated on blinding them and if possible knocking them prone with Slicken. I think I generally preferred Kana's group since he wasn't as surviviable as Eder obviously so it needed to die faster..

So IIRC the secret was to avoid initial engagement with the barb, rather to wait until a suitable target group presented itelf and then attack it from as safe angle as possible in concert with Aloth's bebuffs and disables.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Personal play style is an important factor here, too.

I've started from scratch with an Orlan Barbarian 14,14,10,10,10,20 wielding a single Sabre. Barely enough to survive the early camp fight - because of the 10 points investment into RES. Afterwards it gets much better. Flanked by two warrior companions, the barbarian yell hits many attackers early, and RES 20 gives enough Deflection to not be slaughtered too easily as a frontliner. It's still -5 Deflection compared with a RES 10 Fighter afterall. I justify the CON 14 because that's the primary strength of the Barbarian for the "Very High" base Health/Endurance. PER 10 is good enough for a single 1H weapon.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Personal play style is an important factor here, too.

Indeed. One of the beauties of this game IMO.

[creocoder]

WHAT? LOL. Its strongest class of game!

[creocoder]

Look at that buld https://youtu.be/Q9xwZIMy9U0?list=PL4UqltmSKaEeiHExNqo-Hkk-HrvuejI2K

I play with that on my first playthrough. It was strongest DD if compare with any companion. Lot of damage. Lot of criticals. But it 2nd line fighter.

[Wasted_46]

I used a Tall Grass barb for my frozen crown run. Strictly second line. you dont wanna get aggroed. Base MIG, high PER DEX INT. He does the job.
I dont know about low levels though since there's no point in doing this build unless you have TG so I only recruited him in dyrford., about LVL6 or so.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by creocoder:

Look at that buld https://youtu.be/Q9xwZIMy9U0?list=PL4UqltmSKaEeiHExNqo-Hkk-HrvuejI2K

Spare me any Nerd Commando videos that retrain a level 16 character. Absolutely not my interest.

Originally posted by creocoder:

But it 2nd line fighter.

Originally posted by Wasted_46:

Strictly second line. you dont wanna get aggroed.

So, two more players with a second line barbarian. See subject of this topic and first post. Barbarians not flexible enough?

Originally posted by creocoder:

WHAT? LOL. Its strongest class of game!

Could you make your Steam profile public, so one could see how much you've played PoE to make such a claim?

Originally posted by Wasted_46:

Base MIG, high PER DEX INT. He does the job.

I've had a test with 12,8,15,18,18,10 for a 2H barbarian and also tested that one with lower RES to make it even more fragile. Some of the comments in the first post are about that one. Lots of micro management. More than a Rogue. Highly vulnerable even with the first heavy armor suites one can get. Could be better later in the game, but isn't fun.

[creocoder]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Could you make your Steam profile public, so one could see how much you've played PoE to make such a claim?

Done. Currently its 242 hours.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by creocoder:

Done. Currently its 242 hours.

Thanks! Your achievements are broken though. Only 8. How did you manage to play it for 242 hours without unlocking at least some more of the trivial achievements?


One of my issues with a second line barb is also the low range of Carnage. It's just 1.5m, which is the barb itself plus one neighbor. If standing behind a companion, you strictly need INT higher than 10 to benefit from Carnage. With INT 10, you don't hit anyone else than your single target, which you can only reach with long 2H weapons if you are behind a companion.

[creocoder]

My recomendation for Barb:

MIG - 7 (YES Carl, only 7)
CON - 10
DEX - 18
PER - 21 (VERY IMPORTANT!!!)
INT - 18
RES - 4 (YES Carl, only 4)

Weapon — Tail Grass. Path of Damned with that build will be easy joke.

[creocoder]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

One of my issues with a second line barb is also the low range of Carnage. It's just 1.5m, which is the barb itself plus one neighbor. If standing behind a companion, you strictly need INT higher than 10 to benefit from Carnage. With INT 10, you don't hit anyone else than your single target, which you can only reach with long 2H weapons if you are behind a companion.

You 2nd line Bard looking at params is absolutte crap. Look at stats above.

[creocoder]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Highly vulnerable even with the first heavy armor suites one can get.

WAT? LOL. Barb SHOULD NOT use ANY armor! Man, really please learn math part of game. Seems you did not understand it at all. Look Nerd videos about speed and game basics please. You'll get lot of answers.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by creocoder:

MIG - 7 (YES Carl, only 7)
CON - 10
DEX - 18
PER - 21 (VERY IMPORTANT!!!)
INT - 18
RES - 4 (YES Carl, only 4)

Who is Carl?

MIG 7 defeats the purpose of a 2H weapon's higher damage. You need high damage or a lot of DR bypass to hurt some types of enemies.

PER 21 may sound like a fine idea because Fighter is +5 Accuracy ahead of a Barb, but the cost for PER 21 is very high.

INT 18 basically is a requirement for increased Carnage range and attacking from second line. I agree, but that doesn't make the barb flexible. See subject of this topic. If Barb only hides in second line, that is low flexibility.

Weapon — Tail Grass. Path of Damned with that build will be easy joke.

And yet you've not even completed Act II according to your Steam achievements.

Originally posted by creocoder:

WAT? LOL. Barb SHOULD NOT use ANY armor! Man, really please learn math part of game. Seems you did not understand it at all. Look Nerd videos about speed and game basics please. You'll get lot of answers.

Would you adjust your attitude, please? My Steam achievements for this game at least show how much I've played the game.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by creocoder:

Barb SHOULD NOT use ANY armor!

Together with RES 4 that would be a death sentence. You really haven't played the game far enough. And it seems much as if you don't know The White March either.

[Wasted_46]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Wasted_46:

Strictly second line. you dont wanna get aggroed.

So, two more players with a second line barbarian. See subject of this topic and first post. Barbarians not flexible enough?

DD build comparable to a fighter or CC build comparable to a wizard. How much more flexibility do you want?