Why Hattori, Asuri, and other Speed Characters are Inherently Broken

[Cleril]

Speed. It's the speed.

Every character has limited dodge uses. Speed characters can move quickly and spam light attacks while still being able to catch up with someone who is dodging. Eventually you won't be able to dodge anymore but they can and will still be spamming up a storm of light attacks.

This game has no counter or mechanic to alleviate this stress. Dodging cannot be spammed but speed can.

Every game with a Hattori I see moves that would of hit any other character but they won't hit her. Every game against Hattori I have to work twice as hard just to compensate for her speed because I have no inherent means of countering the spam. And heaven forbid I'm playing Vraxx who stands still for 9/10 of his attacks which means I'll never hit Hattori.

Other fighting games have other status effects to counter characters like Hattori or Asuri. Freezes, riposte, etc. This game doesn't have these effects and therefore there is no way for anyone to get a break from the constant spam output.

Also, it really doesn't make sense how the player not attacking and dodging to get away can't outrun a player just spamming R/L light attacks.

Video showcasing Hattori's ridiculous speed (not what I described but another example of how speed characters are broken): https://vid.me/O3Mz

Credit to Hotline for the vid.

Screenshots showcasing that lances are deliberately busted. The first screenshot http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=596513701 shows when I start a down light attack. Asuri has yet to input anything. The next shot shows that several frames later my hitboxes still have yet to even appear but Asuri finally presses light attack and instantly her hitboxes are birthed while mine never show up. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=596513742

[Buceg?]

Well, yeah I can see alot of people not being able to counter hattori and sword DOES need a nerf.

I dont really understand though what you mean about vraxx. He is a really solid character with mixes of offensive/defensive, but guns AND lance are not very fast weapons. To be exact lance is the second slowest in the game. I actually main vraxx and I can add you if ya need some help against him.

[Cleril]

引用自 Divine | Cepheus：

Well, yeah I can see alot of people not being able to counter hattori and sword DOES need a nerf.

I dont really understand though what you mean about vraxx. He is a really solid character with mixes of offensive/defensive, but guns AND lance are not very fast weapons. To be exact lance is the second slowest in the game. I actually main vraxx and I can add you if ya need some help against him.

I have no complaints about Vraxx whatsoever. I stated I was against Hattori as Vraxx and she was just jumping back and forth because her speed made her impossible to hit with guns or lance.

Namely because Vraxx doesn't move for most of his attacks.

[Lord Rumpkin]

引用自 Cleril：

引用自 Divine | Cepheus：

Well, yeah I can see alot of people not being able to counter hattori and sword DOES need a nerf.

I dont really understand though what you mean about vraxx. He is a really solid character with mixes of offensive/defensive, but guns AND lance are not very fast weapons. To be exact lance is the second slowest in the game. I actually main vraxx and I can add you if ya need some help against him.

I have no complaints about Vraxx whatsoever. I stated I was against Hattori as Vraxx and she was just jumping back and forth because her speed made her impossible to hit with guns or lance.

Namely because Vraxx doesn't move for most of his attacks.

You pretty much have to spam light attacks to deal with Hattori as Vraxx. But she can be dealt with.

[totsnotabot]

what if, to compensate for how fast these characters are, there was an inertia-like mechanic where if a character is moving or attacking in one direction, and someone dodges through them or gets behind them in someway, it takes longer for them to turn around because they are moving so fast. It would still take skill to take advantage of this moment where they are turning, so as not to completely negate fast characters, but it would force both players to think more about what they're doing and the consequences of it.

[Landank]

引用自 Lubbock：

what if, to compensate for how fast these characters are, there was an inertia-like mechanic where if a character is moving or attacking in one direction, and someone dodges through them or gets behind them in someway, it takes longer for them to turn around because they are moving so fast. It would still take skill to take advantage of this moment where they are turning, so as not to completely negate fast characters, but it would force both players to think more about what they're doing and the consequences of it.

Yeah, I heard there was something like that, but this weapon (I think they call it a sword) thats a long metal stick can be spammed and that completely counteracts the effects of dodge

[SawbladeSnake]

引用自 (yttoD) ytieD：

Well, yeah I can see alot of people not being able to counter hattori and sword DOES need a nerf.

I dont really understand though what you mean about vraxx. He is a really solid character with mixes of offensive/defensive, but guns AND lance are not very fast weapons. To be exact lance is the second slowest in the game. I actually main vraxx and I can add you if ya need some help against him.

Well the sword did get a nerf, its hitboxes are much smaller so now you have to be even closer to the player just to hit them.

[Samkiud]

引用自 (yttoD) ytieD：

and sword DOES need a nerf.

I agree with the premise of this thread, but I think that if the sword keep getting nerfed, characters like Roland will be pretty useless. No one seem to discuss how that legend is so weakly in ranked now.

[SawbladeSnake]

well i can understand your pain, but i feel like the speed characters are made to counter characters with equally spammy specials like hammer,axe, and rocket lance users. Its mostly a flaw of the game mechanic not letting you block or giving you a long cooldown on dodges. But this new update has nerfed the speed characters a bit so i cant say they are broken

[SawbladeSnake]

引用自 Samkiud：

引用自 (yttoD) ytieD：

and sword DOES need a nerf.

I agree with the premise of this thread, but I think that if the sword keep getting nerfed, characters like Roland will be pretty useless. No one seem to discuss how that legend is so weakly in ranked now.

Yea the sword was asuris bread and butter, now its almost as short as the katars and hammer/axe/lance users can have a field day with you. This is made even worse with how poor the netcode has been this week.

[Petralicious]

引用自 ionic44：

引用自 (yttoD) ytieD：

Well, yeah I can see alot of people not being able to counter hattori and sword DOES need a nerf.

I dont really understand though what you mean about vraxx. He is a really solid character with mixes of offensive/defensive, but guns AND lance are not very fast weapons. To be exact lance is the second slowest in the game. I actually main vraxx and I can add you if ya need some help against him.

Well the sword did get a nerf, its hitboxes are much smaller so now you have to be even closer to the player just to hit them.

What? Sword had a longer range? It's range is absurd already for the speed and damage it has.

[SawbladeSnake]

引用自 PH_007：

引用自 ionic44：

Well the sword did get a nerf, its hitboxes are much smaller so now you have to be even closer to the player just to hit them.

What? Sword had a longer range? It's range is absurd already for the speed and damage it has.

its range is absurd? any shorter and it may as well be a knife, its a sword for crying out loud, the second shortest weapon in the game.

[vilge;]

The problem isn't the sword itself, but how fast these caracter are. Hattori can destroy any Teros without any skill. All she needs to to do is to pursue him while spamming her sword attacks.

[SawbladeSnake]

引用自 ;451850213952745795：

The problem isn't the sword itself, but how fast these caracter are. Hattori can destroy any Teros without any skill. All she needs to to do is to pursue him while spamming her sword attacks.

well teros is really slow, and he has a few blind spots that can be taken advantage of.

[Cleril]

引用自 ionic44：

引用自 ;451850213952745795：

The problem isn't the sword itself, but how fast these caracter are. Hattori can destroy any Teros without any skill. All she needs to to do is to pursue him while spamming her sword attacks.

well teros is really slow, and he has a few blind spots that can be taken advantage of.

What he said does not apply to just Teros.

More or less anyone who is slower than Hattori (see: everyone except Asuri maybe) cannot escape Hattori.

No character should be allowed to spam attacks while moving and being able to chase a player who is only running and dodging.

And if a character is capable of that then they should have a serious weakness for such an incredible strength. Right now the only fair nerf to Hattori if she is going to keep her speed (and dissapearing act) is to make her unable to dodge period.

Or nerf her speed.

This is akin to the issues faced in League of Legends (which I don't play anymore just saying) with the character Kalista who has infinite dashes so long as she is in range of you. The nerf players called for that she never got was to "break her knees."

If Hattori is going to have her speed then she deserves her knees broken. Ergo, no dodging allowed.

[Liniyka]

For some reason I have no problems beating Hattoris as Vraxx in ranked. Actually, Hattori might be my favourite (and most common) opponent. It's so satisfying to catch them off-guard with a lance..
Lance is like the perfect counter for sword/katar spam. It has a great range, and you can be both stationary (neutral/down heavy, neutral light and down light) and mobile (forward light, forward heavy, air lights).
I believe you just have to find your own way of fighting her. Play more ranked, and you'll start wrecking them in no time. Good luck.