Remove Dlight -> Sair on spear

[Potable Water]

After all this time it is still the strongest, most low-effort combo in this game.

Spear is the most broken weapon in this game for a reason.

Of course people will defend this, and if you do you are retarded.

Cheers

[Karin Anima]

I would not be against this.
Every side-air in this game is stupid.
Especailly if they combo out of something.

[Moku]

Dlight Sair used to be a true combo after Slight. Players didn't like that so they made it dodgeable and also made it so Dlight doesn't pick up enemies off the ground which means it's an anti air attack.

Therefore, I don't think that the only combo spear has that sends people out of the stage should be nerfed any further.

[Potable Water]

Originally posted by KoKo:

Dlight Sair used to be a true combo after Slight. Players didn't like that so they made it dodgeable and also made it so Dlight doesn't pick up enemies off the ground which means it's an anti air attack.

Therefore, I don't think that the only combo spear has that sends people out of the stage should be nerfed any further.

Not all weapons have a true combo that sends people of the stage, so why should spear have one?

Sword - none
Gaunts - none
Scythe - none
Guns - only sometimes

Not to even mention katars.

[76561198401067685]

I don't think spear is the most broken weapon but I'd agree with not making this a true combo.

[Moku]

Originally posted by Potable water:

Originally posted by KoKo:

Dlight Sair used to be a true combo after Slight. Players didn't like that so they made it dodgeable and also made it so Dlight doesn't pick up enemies off the ground which means it's an anti air attack.

Therefore, I don't think that the only combo spear has that sends people out of the stage should be nerfed any further.

Not all weapons have a true combo that sends people of the stage, so why should spear have one?

Sword - none
Gaunts - none
Scythe - none
Guns - only sometimes

Not to even mention katars.

Sword - Dlight > Sair
Gauntlets - String based weapon
Scythe - String based weapon
Guns - Dlight > Sair
Katars - String based weapon
Hammer - Dlight > Sair
Rocket Lance - Sair > Short jump > Recovery
Unarmed - Dlight > Sair
Bow - Dlight > Nlight (Might have 1 dodge frame)

And ofcourse there are other true combos you can do.

[dxtr]

Originally posted by KoKo:

Originally posted by Potable water:

Not all weapons have a true combo that sends people of the stage, so why should spear have one?

Sword - none
Gaunts - none
Scythe - none
Guns - only sometimes

Not to even mention katars.

Sword - Dlight > Sair
Gauntlets - String based weapon
Scythe - String based weapon
Guns - Dlight > Sair
Katars - String based weapon
Hammer - Dlight > Sair
Rocket Lance - Sair > Short jump > Recovery
Unarmed - Dlight > Sair
Bow - Dlight > Nlight (Might have 1 dodge frame)

And ofcourse there are other true combos you can do.

Exposed

[AustinJovi]

Do you know how few combos the spear has? Very few. And it doesn't sound hard to counter. Just don't be underneath them, and they can't use the down air.

[BlakNoble]

just stop spot dodging dlight to sair only works if you spot dodge or dodge in a direction thats not up or down

[76561198401067685]

Originally posted by Faker:

Originally posted by KoKo:

Sword - Dlight > Sair
Gauntlets - String based weapon
Scythe - String based weapon
Guns - Dlight > Sair
Katars - String based weapon
Hammer - Dlight > Sair
Rocket Lance - Sair > Short jump > Recovery
Unarmed - Dlight > Sair
Bow - Dlight > Nlight (Might have 1 dodge frame)

And ofcourse there are other true combos you can do.

Exposed

Wrong.

Go into training mode you can easily measure this in frames.

It takes 20 frames after the attack before you can dodge from spear.

For reference unarmed down light (supreme true combo) takes 25 frames, and gauntlets side light (supreme non-true combo) takes just 9 frames.

Bow dlight = 11 frames
Sword dlight = 13 frames

**Spear dlight = 20 frames**

So I take it since you're comparing them, you would be comfortable with moving spear dlight down to 13 frames before you can dodge?

Because I would be fine with that, I think OP would be too since it wouldn't be true then... just like sword and bow.

[Potable Water]

Originally posted by AustinJovi:

Do you know how few combos the spear has? Very few. And it doesn't sound hard to counter. Just don't be underneath them, and they can't use the down air.

>down air

Read first, reply later

[Moku]

Originally posted by Wind:

Originally posted by Faker:

Exposed

Wrong.

Go into training mode you can easily measure this in frames.

It takes 20 frames after the attack before you can dodge from spear.

For reference unarmed down light (supreme true combo) takes 25 frames, and gauntlets side light (supreme non-true combo) takes just 9 frames.

Bow dlight = 11 frames
Sword dlight = 13 frames

**Spear dlight = 20 frames**

So I take it since you're comparing them, you would be comfortable with moving spear dlight down to 13 frames before you can dodge?

Because I would be fine with that, I think OP would be too since it wouldn't be true then... just like sword and bow.

You are comparing combo starters with an anti air so i wouldn't say it's a good call to base the stun time on that.

[76561198401067685]

Originally posted by KoKo:

You are comparing combo starters with an anti air so i wouldn't say it's a good call to base the stun time on that.

Lol, no you're the one who compared them, you brought it up and said they were true combos. I was just answering what you were comparing.

[Moku]

Okay, I still don't think that spear dlight should be nerfed. But that's just my opinion.

And i brought them as examples for combos that send your opponents off stage i didn't mean to compare their frame data.

[RocketMan]

Originally posted by KoKo:

Originally posted by Potable water:

Not all weapons have a true combo that sends people of the stage, so why should spear have one?

Sword - none
Gaunts - none
Scythe - none
Guns - only sometimes

Not to even mention katars.

Sword - Dlight > Sair
Gauntlets - String based weapon
Scythe - String based weapon
Guns - Dlight > Sair
Katars - String based weapon
Hammer - Dlight > Sair
Rocket Lance - Sair > Short jump > Recovery
Unarmed - Dlight > Sair
Bow - Dlight > Nlight (Might have 1 dodge frame)

And ofcourse there are other true combos you can do.

Dlight into sair is no longer true, and a bunch of the old true combos take much closer placement to pull off these days.
I cant remember when this became a thing though.

[Antipop]

Originally posted by Wind:

Originally posted by Faker:

Exposed

Wrong.

Go into training mode you can easily measure this in frames.

It takes 20 frames after the attack before you can dodge from spear.

For reference unarmed down light (supreme true combo) takes 25 frames, and gauntlets side light (supreme non-true combo) takes just 9 frames.

Bow dlight = 11 frames
Sword dlight = 13 frames

**Spear dlight = 20 frames**

So I take it since you're comparing them, you would be comfortable with moving spear dlight down to 13 frames before you can dodge?

Because I would be fine with that, I think OP would be too since it wouldn't be true then... just like sword and bow.

I don't understand what this frame data has to do with any other weapon. You can't compare the stun time to other weapons without taking into consideration that weapon's own recovery on it and its subsequent follow-up's time to hit.

Originally posted by Mail me to the moon:

Originally posted by KoKo:

Sword - Dlight > Sair
Gauntlets - String based weapon
Scythe - String based weapon
Guns - Dlight > Sair
Katars - String based weapon
Hammer - Dlight > Sair
Rocket Lance - Sair > Short jump > Recovery
Unarmed - Dlight > Sair
Bow - Dlight > Nlight (Might have 1 dodge frame)

And ofcourse there are other true combos you can do.

Dlight into sair is no longer true, and a bunch of the old true combos take much closer placement to pull off these days.
I cant remember when this became a thing though.

Everyone one of these is true, aside from "Rocket Lance - Sair > Short jump > Recovery"

I'm going to assume she meant sLight > Short jump > Recovery, though.