so anyone else play against players clearly using a lag switch?

[Chrono]

its getting a little excessive, third match in two weeks against a 100% lag switcher.

First stock goes down and the game gets crazy laggy
The enemy starts teleporting all over whneever *I* try and mount an offence.
anytime *they* try and do something its perfectly butter smooth...in between stocks waiting for respawn butter smooth...when no actions going on just jumping/ dodging butter smoooth
anytime i try and chase him down and atatck, on my screen (and sound) i land the attack but he instead teleports behind me tkaing no dmg and attempts to counter....this needs to be fixed.
and FYI i won this game by spamming hattoris sigs which are apparently great for random spamming and catching players, so im not salty cuz i lost a match.
THIS IS A PROBLEM.
(i can upload the match i just had if anyone wants to see it, and i won this time by super spamming hattori sigs)

[Isokon]

Lag switching doesn't really work because the game is server based and not peer2peer. If your opponent starts teleporting it is because you are lagging, not the other way round.

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Isokon:

Lag switching doesn't really work because the game is server based and not peer2peer. If your opponent starts teleporting it is because you are lagging, not the other way round.

you have no idea what your talking about.
Lag switching is when you create a disruption in the outbound transmission of your network packets by introducing a interruptable circuit into your transmission wires. It can most definitley work on a dedicated server, provided the server is tolerant of out of order packet transmission and has significant threshhold for packet receipt delays, both of which UDP networking can and often does support.
yes this works...yes this is a thing

[–]Tyveris 6 points 1 year ago*

Majority of gameplay traffic is UDP which is semi-reliable, probably can do a panel at BCX if enough people are interested.

TCP is all the lobby, transfer, chat, and other non-latency sensitive stuff.

[76561198401067685]

Upload I'd like to see.

100% seems pretty sure ...

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Wind:

Upload I'd like to see.

100% seems pretty sure ...

theres zero lag in the ingame replay, i am gonna upload and record it tho because its actually hillarious, you can clearly see im chasing a ghost, multiple times im seen throwing a sig and hes standing still on the other side of the map other times it looks like im chaining together combos at the air, when during the actual game he was right there infront of me pretty much doing nothing, (this is a ranked 1v1 btw gold tier)
Edit. i watched it again and at the start of his second stock, (i won the first stock after almsot 2 minutes of zero lag back and fourth) you can see a big lag spike thats the only lag you can see in the ingame replay

[Scrinkly and bingus]

Im actually glad somebody else has this problem against lag switchers as well.

[InsanityS]

So, hold up a moment.

You're claiming that there are players who can intentionally disrupt the game in a way that forces their opponents to suffer horrible unplayable lag while they suffer no such consequences and they're only low gold?

[dragonsnake9000]

Just because theyre that level doesnt mean they havent just started their account

[dragonsnake9000]

Lag switchers exist on every multiplayer game made, you cant escape it unless someone enforces a policy and a system that filters out connection distortion. Almost would say get a VAC for brawlhalla but thats too gay.

[Diamond Drip]

pics or it didnt happen

[Chrono]

Originally posted by InsanityS:

So, hold up a moment.

You're claiming that there are players who can intentionally disrupt the game in a way that forces their opponents to suffer horrible unplayable lag while they suffer no such consequences and they're only low gold?

Ya....have you never ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ heard of lag switching? :|
and its not making me suffer lag... hes making himself appear as lagging when hes really not, he has full control....this isnt some new thing its been around for like 20 years lol

edit: also in my experience (ive had 3 matches im sure were against lag switchers) they play normal until they get beat 1 or 2 stocks then start using the lag switch, scummy af|

my personal check list for someone using a lag switch are -
1. did it start as soon as it looks like they wont win.
2. does happen when I (me) pushes the actions and play agressive
3. does it happen when the enemy pushes the action and plays agressive
4. does it happen when theres no action going on, ie between stocks, both players jump baiting, recovering from an off the map throw etc
if the answer is 1.yes 2. yes 3. no 4. no then your playing against a lag switcher

[Chrono]

Been looking more into the server side features and found:

"We use a server based rollback system with a latency measuring system that determines when to apply input delay. Whenever you are sending your inputs to the server, we determine what the actual time it took to the server was and then *******average********** that across your inputs **********since the game started*******. If the average time it took was 47ms (94ms round trip/ping) or less, we aren't applying any sort of input delay to you. After that, we start to apply input delay so that the quality of the game doesn't degrade for the other players."

which explains why lag switchers always play the game a little bit first...the game in this topic the guy dragged out the first stock (which was perfectly lag FREE) for almsot 2 minutes, and for the last 30 seconds of the stock all he did was run not engage, not counter just run.
it also explains why they only do it when absolutly nessecary, never doing it inbetween stocks, recovering off stage etc

if you have 2 minutes of perfect ping, you can then spike your latency really high as long as its only for a small fraction of time.
The AVERAGE lat since the game started wont budge, and they recieve no penality at all.

is anyboy still not convinced lag switching is possible / a thing in this game, you can doubt weither or not the guy i was fighting was one (i know without a shadow of a doubt he is and again i WON this match) but can anyone sincerly tell me they think lag switching is not a thing? lol

[Antipop]

Originally posted by Kyle (Chrono):

Been looking more into the server side features and found:

"We use a server based rollback system with a latency measuring system that determines when to apply input delay. Whenever you are sending your inputs to the server, we determine what the actual time it took to the server was and then *******average********** that across your inputs **********since the game started*******. If the average time it took was 47ms (94ms round trip/ping) or less, we aren't applying any sort of input delay to you. After that, we start to apply input delay so that the quality of the game doesn't degrade for the other players."

which explains why lag switchers always play the game a little bit first...the game in this topic the guy dragged out the first stock (which was perfectly lag FREE) for almsot 2 minutes, and for the last 30 seconds of the stock all he did was run not engage, not counter just run.
it also explains why they only do it when absolutly nessecary, never doing it inbetween stocks, recovering off stage etc

if you have 2 minutes of perfect ping, you can then spike your latency really high as long as its only for a small fraction of time.
The AVERAGE lat since the game started wont budge, and they recieve no penality at all.

is anyboy still not convinced lag switching is possible / a thing in this game, you can doubt weither or not the guy i was fighting was one (i know without a shadow of a doubt he is and again i WON this match) but can anyone sincerly tell me they think lag switching is not a thing? lol

No. That's not how it would work. It doesn't take the average of the entire match. I know this for two separate reasons. As a player, I have a CMD prompt up displaying my ping while I play a game. I normally don't lag but when I do, I can physically see my own latency shoot up, even if it's for a brief second. And I do experience roll backs and input delay, no matter how late into the match and no matter how brief the spike is.
As a TO, I see this in online tournaments all of the time. In a high tier tournament, there is sportsmanship so if one player starts to lag a bit, he will often taunt and stand still and hope his opponent understands and will give him a few moments for it to resolve. This has happened in games that were already a few minutes into the match.

Second, the game doesn't sync your data the way it will in a FPS. In an FPS, at least if I understand correctly, if your data (packets) are being delayed the game will assume your last actions and continue them. This will happen until your connection re-stabilizes and will check your actual position/actions and re-sync them with the server.
In this game, even if you drop only 2 packets, it can be enough to completely cause you to walk off stage.

[Isokon]

Originally posted by Kyle (Chrono):

you have no idea what your talking about.
Lag switching is when you create a disruption in the outbound transmission of your network packets by introducing a interruptable circuit into your transmission wires. It can most definitley work on a dedicated server, provided the server is tolerant of out of order packet transmission and has significant threshhold for packet receipt delays, both of which UDP networking can and often does support.
yes this works...yes this is a thing

The server doesn't have a high tolerance for delayed packets, though. If your opponent's ping was so high that it would cause him to "teleport him all over" the delay would already be too long for the server to accept it and the input is simply dropped.
As Antipop points out, if your packets are dropped the server will continue updating your position based on your last input and upon resync update your position on your client to match that on the server.
That's why you don't see the warping in replays, because that's the server state. You see yourself chasing a ghost because you don't receive the updates from the server in time. The issue lies between you and the server not your opponent.

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Antipop 🔞 BL:

Originally posted by Kyle (Chrono):

Been looking more into the server side features and found:

"We use a server based rollback system with a latency measuring system that determines when to apply input delay. Whenever you are sending your inputs to the server, we determine what the actual time it took to the server was and then *******average********** that across your inputs **********since the game started*******. If the average time it took was 47ms (94ms round trip/ping) or less, we aren't applying any sort of input delay to you. After that, we start to apply input delay so that the quality of the game doesn't degrade for the other players."

which explains why lag switchers always play the game a little bit first...the game in this topic the guy dragged out the first stock (which was perfectly lag FREE) for almsot 2 minutes, and for the last 30 seconds of the stock all he did was run not engage, not counter just run.
it also explains why they only do it when absolutly nessecary, never doing it inbetween stocks, recovering off stage etc

if you have 2 minutes of perfect ping, you can then spike your latency really high as long as its only for a small fraction of time.
The AVERAGE lat since the game started wont budge, and they recieve no penality at all.

is anyboy still not convinced lag switching is possible / a thing in this game, you can doubt weither or not the guy i was fighting was one (i know without a shadow of a doubt he is and again i WON this match) but can anyone sincerly tell me they think lag switching is not a thing? lol

No. That's not how it would work. It doesn't take the average of the entire match. I know this for two separate reasons. As a player, I have a CMD prompt up displaying my ping while I play a game. I normally don't lag but when I do, I can physically see my own latency shoot up, even if it's for a brief second. And I do experience roll backs and input delay, no matter how late into the match and no matter how brief the spike is.
As a TO, I see this in online tournaments all of the time. In a high tier tournament, there is sportsmanship so if one player starts to lag a bit, he will often taunt and stand still and hope his opponent understands and will give him a few moments for it to resolve. This has happened in games that were already a few minutes into the match.

Second, the game doesn't sync your data the way it will in a FPS. In an FPS, at least if I understand correctly, if your data (packets) are being delayed the game will assume your last actions and continue them. This will happen until your connection re-stabilizes and will check your actual position/actions and re-sync them with the server.
In this game, even if you drop only 2 packets, it can be enough to completely cause you to walk off stage.

well what i posted came from tyverius...so which one of yous is correct?
this isnt just something i pulled out of the air, word for word, copy and paste thats wehat HE said...in this forums... the only thing i personally changed was the *** around the words i thoguht were important, not trying to argue i just wanna find out the facts, if im wrong im wrong...but which one is it...is tyveris wrong or are you (for anyone who is unaware who tyveris is, hes is a BMG developer)

and second, would it be possible for you to explain how its possible that 1. slight lag will make you run off the map.
2. how someone can horribly teleport lag over for 6 minutes, and no one go flying off the map?

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Isokon:

Originally posted by Kyle (Chrono):

you have no idea what your talking about.
Lag switching is when you create a disruption in the outbound transmission of your network packets by introducing a interruptable circuit into your transmission wires. It can most definitley work on a dedicated server, provided the server is tolerant of out of order packet transmission and has significant threshhold for packet receipt delays, both of which UDP networking can and often does support.
yes this works...yes this is a thing

The server doesn't have a high tolerance for delayed packets, though. If your opponent's ping was so high that it would cause him to "teleport him all over" the delay would already be too long for the server to accept it and the input is simply dropped.
As Antipop points out, if your packets are dropped the server will continue updating your position based on your last input and upon resync update your position on your client to match that on the server.
That's why you don't see the warping in replays, because that's the server state. You see yourself chasing a ghost because you don't receive the updates from the server in time. The issue lies between you and the server not your opponent.

well what you say, what anti pop (just a moderator in this forums) and what tyveris says (one of the games developer says) are completly opposites.
i would like this to be cleared up by an actual developer if possible plz.
according to tyveris you and anti pop are dead wrong. and i dont think im being un reasonable trusting the developer over a moderator and a random user, so plz dont take offence even if it turns out tyveris is wrong