Earth 2160 clone

[Crusader_bin]

I had a chance to try it out. I wanted to get it, but... It really IS - just as I heard, and now seen - a clone of Earth 2160.
Hell, it's not even better :( So dissapointed... It copies the factions when it comes to building types (minus one, but than again E2160 had 4, this one has 3), races even feel the same, the huge disadvantages of aliens in Earth are the same in here even...

Ok, it has better music. Sure, random midi-generator creates better tracks. But it doesn't have the RPG elements, complete unit customization, lacks one faction (as mentioned before) and has graphics that are comparable. I MUST say that ingame animations are better. Same for cutscenes... But still - a general dissapointment :(

I even recently played E2160 and I think I like it more still... It now costs a fraction of the price you need to pay for this title too.

IT IS ALL MY OPINION.
I'm wondering, what is yours?

Did you play E2160 and you disagree?

Or do you think the same thing?

edit: Didn't have the chance to play long, but the hour I had with the game did not make me want to buy it at all...

[Kookus]

Your opinion stinks. E2160 isn't even on the same playing field, never mind that it's had ten years to get its bugs worked out. Come back when you're willing to compare apples to apples.

[Anup]

Originally posted by Crusader_bin:

I had a chance to try it out. I wanted to get it, but... It really IS - just as I heard, and now seen - a clone of Earth 2160.
Hell, it's not even better :( So dissapointed... It copies the factions when it comes to building types (minus one, but than again E2160 had 4, this one has 3), races even feel the same, the huge disadvantages of aliens in Earth are the same in here even...

Ok, it has better music. Sure, random midi-generator creates better tracks. But it doesn't have the RPG elements, complete unit customization, lacks one faction (as mentioned before) and has graphics that are comparable. I MUST say that ingame animations are better. Same for cutscenes... But still - a general dissapointment :(

I only saw Goo (about 2,5 hours of gameplay videos) and i agree completely... It seems to be just a really crappy attempt to clone Earth (more so i am wondered why it have better ratings than E2160)

but... i would say lacking of RPG element, heroes, would be a good move (lets be honest, heroes in E2160 were quite OP... but then... epic units in goo seems to be simmilar in strength, just much harder to obtain) and lunar corp is somehow conceptually mixed into human race

Originally posted by Kookus:

Your opinion stinks. E2160 isn't even on the same playing field, never mind that it's had ten years to get its bugs worked out. Come back when you're willing to compare apples to apples.

What is more on the same playing field?

RTS, check
Building bases, check
Race concepts, check, COMPLETELY the same
Unit limits, check
heroes- epic units, somehow check...
well... OK... now the differences

Resources E 3 Goo 1
race count - E 4 Goo 3
unit types - E unit creator Goo very limited
unit roles - same as above
possible tweaking of unit roles on the field by abilities- E yes Goo no
Decent unit pathfinding - E yes Goo... well, no. as many videos show
Decent AI - same as above
enviroment changes E yes Goo no


OK i must admit... E2160 and Goo are not on the same playing field. Earth is working game (and no, it is not because of 10 years to work out bugs, it was almost bug-free on release date and no big fix or change was done to it... There was no reason to... Yeah... In the past developers tent do not put out unfinished games as finished...)
Some core concept are the same, but Goo reduces Earth to a very small fraction, throwing away many of features Earth had, oversimplifying the game, stripping out any real possibilities...

[Mr.Kill]

Earth 2160 is not anywhere near similar to this game mostly because in earth 2160, you designed your own units, research was priority and the resource system was dumb in that there was a resource that was used for both research and production and one that used only for production. This meant that without extensive modding or patches, you'd run out of resources on most mid sized maps. Also in earth 2160 defenses were OP and could last a ridiculous amount of firepower and only died to dedicated siege weapons, and it would take a alot of siege weapons and a lot of time even with many siege guns.

In addition, Earth 2160 was no where near balanced, the morphians have a build style that is similar to the build style of the goo but their flying mothership was ridiculously OP and their ground defenses could become near impossible to break through. Many of the factions had a variety of guns but for some factions certain guns were way better than others (i.e chem gun for ED and beams for LC). UCS could build loads of units really fast via multiple manufacturing research and had both really power missiles and really powerful guassian beams. Infantry were damn near useless and most unit designs were also useless because defenses were so OP. Scouting the map was annoying because the game would shoot static in your face if you tried to look at areas you haven't scouted yet, despite still letting you look for a brief moment at the terrain features. Keep in mind I love Earth 2160, I love the late-game battles with large scale armies.

Grey Goo has none of the problems that Earth 2160 had. And it also has too many differences to count. For starters there's super units (but nothing on par with a laser mothership with anti-missile batteries and one-hit kill gun), no unit design, factions are balanced, defenses are reasonably strong, the alien (goo) faction has no flyer mother and no flying units but compensates for being able to scale hills, there's ambush points on the map using forests and the economic system is totally different. Whether you prefer earth 2160 over Grey goo is really just a matter of preference. Conceptually there's no equivalence.

[Harukage]

Purger hard to obtain? Yes please. 7 minutes into the game with little to no effort when playing against AI or newbish player. Purger is the easiest epic to build.

[Mr.Kill]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Purger hard to obtain? Yes please. 7 minutes into the game with little to no effort when playing against AI or newbish player. Purger is the easiest epic to build.

But also vulnerable to kiting unless it has support. The purger has only one attack and its a slow easy to dodge attack.

[Not Your Heroes]

Originally posted by Mr.Kill:

Originally posted by Harukage:

Purger hard to obtain? Yes please. 7 minutes into the game with little to no effort when playing against AI or newbish player. Purger is the easiest epic to build.

But also vulnerable to kiting unless it has support. The purger has only one attack and its a slow easy to dodge attack.

not to mention if its being built you lost a resource point as goo and its dies super fast to sustained fire once it's attacked...

[Metal Arms]

Never heard of earth 2160, looks cool. BUT after looking at what it offers and the factions and graphics. No it's not the same kind of rts.

Who cares if one game has 4 factions and the other has 3 factions? Aoe2 gold had 18 human civilizations and starcraft 2 has three, is one better because of more factions? no.

Human factions regardless of what is it, are usually the same. This rts they feel very different, for once they're the advanced civilization compared to the others. Also they mention many times in the campaign of the silent ones, could be a forth race. Similar to Sin of solar empire with the story, although limited hints at a similar force of great mysterious origins and power.

[Delete]

I played Earth 2160.
You know that Earth 2160 copying unit modelling from Warzone 2100? So that means Earth sux, and we don't need to play Earth!?
Yes Grey goo copies building mechanic from Earth so what? It not bad at all, its even good.
Plus Grey goo is much more dynamic comparin to Earth.
And i repeat again. Grey GOO NEW ♥♥♥♥♥♥ GAME!!! Earth old as hell! And i want more NEW RTS with old mechanic! I don't want see in RTS some new features(Remeber terramorphing in Maelstrom, or walkin bases from C&C4) that mostly sux!

[Not Your Heroes]

owning both grey goo and earth 2160 i can safely say the only and i mean only similarity between both games is the modular building mechanic, and that they're both a SCI-FI game

nothing else in grey goo is at all similar to earth 2160 at all, the factions are entirely different, and the closest actual old game to grey goo is C&C

[Anup]

Originally posted by Mr.Kill:

Earth 2160 is not anywhere near similar to this game mostly because in earth 2160, you designed your own units, research was priority and the resource system was dumb in that there was a resource that was used for both research and production and one that used only for production. This meant that without extensive modding or patches, you'd run out of resources on most mid sized maps. Also in earth 2160 defenses were OP and could last a ridiculous amount of firepower and only died to dedicated siege weapons, and it would take a alot of siege weapons and a lot of time even with many siege guns.

In addition, Earth 2160 was no where near balanced, the morphians have a build style that is similar to the build style of the goo but their flying mothership was ridiculously OP and their ground defenses could become near impossible to break through. Many of the factions had a variety of guns but for some factions certain guns were way better than others (i.e chem gun for ED and beams for LC). UCS could build loads of units really fast via multiple manufacturing research and had both really power missiles and really powerful guassian beams. Infantry were damn near useless and most unit designs were also useless because defenses were so OP. Scouting the map was annoying because the game would shoot static in your face if you tried to look at areas you haven't scouted yet, despite still letting you look for a brief moment at the terrain features. Keep in mind I love Earth 2160, I love the late-game battles with large scale armies.

Grey Goo has none of the problems that Earth 2160 had. And it also has too many differences to count. For starters there's super units (but nothing on par with a laser mothership with anti-missile batteries and one-hit kill gun), no unit design, factions are balanced, defenses are reasonably strong, the alien (goo) faction has no flyer mother and no flying units but compensates for being able to scale hills, there's ambush points on the map using forests and the economic system is totally different. Whether you prefer earth 2160 over Grey goo is really just a matter of preference. Conceptually there's no equivalence.

thank you for first real attempt to compare... to comment: 1. resources. Being able to run out of resources wasnt so easy as i remember... there was a lot of resources everywhere. Not infinite (exept water at some maps) but a lot. I think infinite resources of only one kind as they are in Goo, mining sites, steady income... Basically Total annihilation style of economy... well there you had also energy, but whatever, is nice, but for games with no unit cap, not in games with max 200. There are not many reasons for expansions when combining infinite resources and unit cap (unless you have an unit upkeep, but in goo you dont) as you dont have enought profit from expanding. Also that expanding part in Goo seems really bad, not being able to actually create a new base so being completely locked in the start position (only Goo being exeption...)
defences OP... wouldnt say OP, it was reasonably good. Useless if opponent had a siege weapons, decent in direct fight (at simmilar power level to the best units, bit cheaper and locked on spot/limited movements. Also really strong were only ED defence cannons, USC and LC... meh...). Just what you would expect when you are trying to actually do static defense in games other than Starcraft (you wouldnt call fortress in AoEII OP, would you?). Imbalance in terms of weapons and stuff... you said it, UCS had numbers and missile systems, LC got beams, ED chems... Everyone had its preferred weapon type and every weapon type could be made bad by a good armor choice, making space for other, generally less powerful weapon types to perform better. This part with required correct reactions to opponent actions is a great part in every good strategy game and taken to a higher levels with unit designer in earth. Because of this concept if you lack behind someone, you can still win by correct choices. Its what strategy games are about.

At this point, please describe me what viable options of tech-switches and counters do you have in Goo? Possibilities seems to be EXTREMELY limited in every game aspect.


None of mentioned weapon systems in Earth was OP, they just required different approach. Mothership (or battleship or how was it called) is another story. Yeah, it got antimissile point defense making it REALLY hard to take down, but it wasnt allmighty. And honestly, what do you expect if you let someone sit on minerals for 20 minutes focusing on a single ship? Mothership is little harder to kill than titans in goo, but also takes a lot more efford to create it... And if you would put simmilar ammount of time and resources into AA (both static and mobile, you would be unit capped long before that point...), mothership would die fast... Its those race differences again, not only completely different base management (the most visible part of a game, also part that is taken over in Goo) but also different strengths and weaknesses as a time goes (in fact this is also simmilar in Goo, at least for goo race as topic creator pointed out). Let aliens alone for 20 minutes, you are pretty much dead. Attack him fast, he would have problems. Static while scouting was annoying, but managable if you would navigate via minimap, and its not that hard to get used to it...
Infantry useless. well, they were good scouts (almost for free so easily replacable, fast to made, just position them on the map and be warned if something goes that way.) and... might be funny to send an army of LC infantry against mothership if i remember correctly, it wasnt able to snipe sniper rounds :D

Earth wasnt flawless, but it was great, in fact also quite ballanced. And it hadnt have problems like idle unit while something in vision and just out of range shoots on them, problems with pathfinding, ignoring units that gets out of range, useless AI,... (also lack of possibilities) that i have observed in every Goo gameplay videos up to now... Goo have a nice features. Climbing hills is funny (positioning artilery on hills really reminds me what i often did with LC artilery unit in Earth :) ). And forests for ambushes are great. BUT forests ambushes would really benefit from some unit stances and better unit behavior.

Originally posted by Delete:

I played Earth 2160.
You know that Earth 2160 copying unit modelling from Warzone 2100? So that means Earth sux, and we don't need to play Earth!?
Yes Grey goo copies building mechanic from Earth so what? It not bad at all, its even good.
Plus Grey goo is much more dynamic comparin to Earth.

Earth 2140 released in 1997. Warzone 2100 released in 1999. Your argument is invalid :P

Its ok when to use concept of an older game. Problem is, when that older games is somehow better in every aspect... OK. Earth was less dynamic... And didnt had forrests.

[Not Your Heroes]

Originally posted by Anup:

Originally posted by Delete:

I played Earth 2160.
You know that Earth 2160 copying unit modelling from Warzone 2100? So that means Earth sux, and we don't need to play Earth!?
Yes Grey goo copies building mechanic from Earth so what? It not bad at all, its even good.
Plus Grey goo is much more dynamic comparin to Earth.

Earth 2140 released in 1997. Warzone 2100 released in 1999. Your argument is invalid :P

Its ok when to use concept of an older game. Problem is, when that older games is somehow better in every aspect... OK. Earth was less dynamic... And didnt had forrests.

earth 2140 doesn't have custom units its very much a C&C style RTS

only earth 2150+ has the unit customisation. also how can you say earth 2160 is better you haven't played the game, this game is nto equvilent to earth 2160 its clsoer to C&C not earth different styles of RTS.

also in regards to tech upgrades in grey goo there are 5 catergories

• tank
  
• artillery
  
• air
  
• stealth
  
• Economy

each faction has 3 seperate upgrades per catergory, you can only pick 1 out of each catergory and each upgrade changes how a unit functions entriely.

example is the beta's stealth tech upgrades
stalkers gain a sniper cannon & stealth while moving
seeker loses stealth but gains a stealth field
or stratus can now detect cloaked units.

each one of them impacts yoru playstyle entirely stalker one allows you to stutter step attack the seeker one allows you to mass an army with seekers and suddenly the enemy sees a few seekers to kill then boom invis army of hailstorms & avalanches appear outta nowhere.

or the goo's tank upgrades
bastion's rampage at death
destructors deal splash damage
destructors projectiles bounce to 2 extra targets.

earth 2160's units you actually could build as stated ebfore was limited becaus eof the games monumental balance problems.

and resources ont eh map in 2160 did run out pretty quick.

also only human struggle setting up expansion bases beta can expand across the map very easily. just humans need some way to do that but then again human bases are a ♥♥♥♥♥ to breach, if they get settled in.

[Anup]

Originally posted by Karoset, The Undying:

earth 2140 doesn't have custom units its very much a C&C style RTS

only earth 2150+ has the unit customisation. also how can you say earth 2160 is better you haven't played the game, this game is nto equvilent to earth 2160 its clsoer to C&C not earth different styles of RTS.

also in regards to tech upgrades in grey goo there are 5 catergories

• tank
  
• artillery
  
• air
  
• stealth
  
• Economy

each faction has 3 seperate upgrades per catergory, you can only pick 1 out of each catergory and each upgrade changes how a unit functions entriely.

example is the beta's stealth tech upgrades
stalkers gain a sniper cannon & stealth while moving
seeker loses stealth but gains a stealth field
or stratus can now detect cloaked units.

each one of them impacts yoru playstyle entirely stalker one allows you to stutter step attack the seeker one allows you to mass an army with seekers and suddenly the enemy sees a few seekers to kill then boom invis army of hailstorms & avalanches appear outta nowhere.

or the goo's tank upgrades
bastion's rampage at death
destructors deal splash damage
destructors projectiles bounce to 2 extra targets.

earth 2160's units you actually could build as stated ebfore was limited becaus eof the games monumental balance problems.

and resources ont eh map in 2160 did run out pretty quick.

also only human struggle setting up expansion bases beta can expand across the map very easily. just humans need some way to do that but then again human bases are a ♥♥♥♥♥ to breach, if they get settled in.

First, back to Earth: i never had problems with resources in Earth games in general. Any of them. Maybe because i started in 2140 where resources went out really fast... and i have played a lot of Starcraft where, also, resources runs out pretty fast. In Earth it seems to me there is a decent ammount of minerals that it forces you to be active (expand), but there are enought of them... Maybe i just see it this way because of what strategy games i have played most.
Ballance problems you mention... No, not really. You could have very strong and very powerful high-tech units that you might say outperformed everything but took ages to build and costs fortune... but then if you have used swarm of cheaper units specifically designed for selected goal, or just needed a little more firepower really fast, you could sometimes achieve that more efficiently with lower tier units. Personally i was using almost every chasis in game and it always felt better than using only a big guns... Only thing in E2160 that have no alternative are heroes... And those are soooo freaking OP i was always disappointed they were not limited to campaign only...

To Goo
about expansion i meant main bases, not expanding with regular structures. Having main base locked makes you vulneable to strong surgical attack aiming to just breach defenses and destroy main base...

About researches, that sounds really nice. But, can you change a research during the game? Like starting with havin invisible units, suddenly when those are no longer core of my army someone attacks me with his invisible units so it would be better for me to switch it to detection mode,... Or extreme masses of enemy army is gathering on other side of map so you want to switch from bounce attack to AOE attack for your goo destructor,... If not, it couldnt be called a techswitch and it couldnt be really used as reaction tool to what someone is doing, it would be a irreversible upgrade to unit, no less, no more...
I dont say its bad to have some tech choices that forces you to irreversibly choose one of several, but IMO its better to be able to change choices and adapt at the first place

[Not Your Heroes]

you can switch them out at any time just if you do you gotta research the new upgrade that takes time before it activates.

[Mr.Kill]

@Anup
I love the franchise too and while I think Earth 2160 is flawed, its still a good game. That said most people do have problems with the balance, as there is an official balance mod. But as you note, most of the balance problems can be overcome by simply knowing of the exploit in advance (i.e have masses of AA ready, have a fighter squadron, excessive non-missile artillery etc.). A tell-tale sign of balance is the feeling that everyone or any given faction is OP and earth 2160 gives that impression at times.

@Earth2160
Just to let you guys know make sure you haven't bought earth 2160 recently as those come with the latest patch which probably contains the balancing patch. Back when it first released... well you saw what I wrote about the OP defenses and unit balancing. Seriously LC super tank did 1000 damage per second roughly that is some serious OP.

And if you haven't... no idea, experiences are subjective. I remember constantly running out of resources until I installed either superstorm V3 or REO rebalancing, both of which added options to tweak map resources. Regardless of what is the case, Earth 2160 has nothing to do with this game and perhaps the only similarity is, Humans have hub building, ED has hub building. Goo has mother builder that sub divides, Morphidian have builder that sub divides. This of course requires you to ignore that the Morphidian have static emplacements.

@Grey Goo
Playing this game off my friends PC. I'm loving the game but I'm finding the goo artillery a bit OP since it can sit on mountains and if the mountain is surrounded by tempest AA...

[Anup]

Originally posted by Mr.Kill:

@Earth2160
Just to let you guys know make sure you haven't bought earth 2160 recently as those come with the latest patch which probably contains the balancing patch. Back when it first released... well you saw what I wrote about the OP defenses and unit balancing. Seriously LC super tank did 1000 damage per second roughly that is some serious OP.

I havent played E for years (since time of first patch), but you are correct, that top platform had a serious damage output, but first, its a bit vulneable to air attacks. I always had an impression LC have worst AA of all. And second if i remember correctly that top tank had not much health, so a very nice glasscannon (well... hardened glass as it still was top design)... And took a lot of resources and few minutes to build. It was hard, but not impossible to defeat. But other top designs were also hard to defeat, so somehow OK. As you pointed, in E2160 every race gave impression of being OP. But trully OP were only heroes (some more than others), 1shooting almost everything and it required a whole army to kill one. I am not really sure why i stopped playing Earth 2160, but its possible heroes were main reason...
About resources... well, do you remember how limited resources were in E2140 or 2150? and those did have mostly none to two places to expand. Or look at Starcraft 2 changes for Legacy of Void (they even lowered ammount of resources... ;) Well, all this talking makes me want to buy earth series again... :D ps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtRKcZhIu44 how it looks when Starcraft progamers who obviously dont know E2160 plays it... :D

anyway i will keep looking at Goo, might be a decent game after all...