Projectile Turrets (aka what's the point?)

[LostSoul]

Okay, seriously. I have to ask - and I'm sure we've all been asking the same thing - what's the point of these turrets? Pulse turrets are a straight upgrade over the scatter turret, sure. But that doesn't make either 'good.' Greel Arbiter cannons. Ion cannons. They're all pointless. Why? Because you get a laser turret (any will do) and make SURE whatever it shoots is getting hit. (I am deliberately ignoring Flak turrets...)

Improved Range? *psh* That just means they spend more time shooting at **** they won't hit. Or doing too little damage to matter anyway. Even when you've got all three projectile turret components installed, they still fail to perform at a mediocre level. Yeah, that's right. I said it. They don't even aspire to mediocrity.

They need some changes, something to put them into a competitive market with other options (namely, lasers). One weapon should not be the 'be-all, end-all' of weapons (looking at you mk6 mining laser). That's just boooooooring.

[PW]

Ditto, man. This is exactly what I am thinking! Only problem is that I am making them too strong now..

[Cosmic_Ducky]

anything I used the turrents for in the end was to blow up the torps for the achievement.

[Darkscis]

I actually find them very useful to be honest. My Blackgate has a mix of scatter and pulse turrets primarily (with 2 flak's just for fun). I use the Ion Flak secondary and then the beam broadside. 9/10 I can warp into a mission, hold down Shift and sip my coffee while everything dies around me. I only bother with the broadsides when against another Dreadnaught and that's only to speed things up.

Scatter and Pulse turrents don't miss things that can't move anyway. They also tear up other capital ships with ease.

[d[-_-]b]

Pulse turrets are great mixed with a laser on the barracuda. 4 Mk6 Pulse with a mining laser is great due their rapid fire, especially with buffs.
Plus they make the xbox 360 controller...pulse!

[LostSoul]

Originally posted by philpw99:

Ditto, man. This is exactly what I am thinking! Only problem is that I am making them too strong now..

I seem to have got a more robust set up after some extensive tweaking of numbers. Lasers are now all terrible against shields (mining is better, but particle has increased hull damage), but I also went in toned back their overall damage as well. Scatter is still a little weak against shields but does much better hull damage, whereas Pulse is the reverse. Scatter is also a bit stronger than Pulse from having much shorter range. Ion turrets are now like shieldbusters - absolutely brutal to shields but not so great against hull. Special-drop weapons are largely unchanged (making them largely superior to store-bought hardware, ie something to hunt down once you're blackgated and mk6 decked).

Originally posted by Captain Oscar:

Pulse turrets are great mixed with a laser on the barracuda. 4 Mk6 Pulse with a mining laser is great due their rapid fire, especially with buffs.
Plus they make the xbox 360 controller...pulse!

Uhm...nope. They've got a range advantage on particle laser. But that's about it. MK6 Particle, even taking into account the lower shield penetration, still does more overall damage and cannot miss. 40% of 750/s is still a 30% increase over the 233/s you get from Pulse. And once you break through shields, Particle damage skyrockets. Pulse just has no practical use.

[PW]

Originally posted by LostSoul:

I seem to have got a more robust set up after some extensive tweaking of numbers. Lasers are now all terrible against shields (mining is better, but particle has increased hull damage), but I also went in toned back their overall damage as well. Scatter is still a little weak against shields but does much better hull damage, whereas Pulse is the reverse. Scatter is also a bit stronger than Pulse from having much shorter range. Ion turrets are now like shieldbusters - absolutely brutal to shields but not so great against hull. Special-drop weapons are largely unchanged (making them largely superior to store-bought hardware, ie something to hunt down once you're blackgated and mk6 decked).

I am doing the similar mod settings. Almost everything is just like what you said here. It's kind of great that we have the same considerations.

[Ifret]

I agree at mk 6 the mining laser is the obvious choice. I feel like the purpose of projectile turrets is the price. Instead of thinking what gives me the best average dps, think what gives me the best dps per dollar. Usually the only times I use projectile turrets is at the beginning of a game when I am broke, and when I upgrade to a Dreadnought from a ship with considerably less turrets.

[LostSoul]

Originally posted by Ifret:

I agree at mk 6 the mining laser is the obvious choice. I feel like the purpose of projectile turrets is the price. Instead of thinking what gives me the best average dps, think what gives me the best dps per dollar. Usually the only times I use projectile turrets is at the beginning of a game when I am broke, and when I upgrade to a Dreadnought from a ship with considerably less turrets.

The problem is that the price disparity is one that's extremely short-lived. And there are no "top-end" projectile turrets to fill the same billet either. It's mining lasers, all the way down. Not at all interesting, imo. Now, if adding/creating new weapons was as straightforward as tweaking existing ones, I'd be building all sorts of variants to fill in every niche (shields, hull, range, speed, price, all-around).

Secondly, you've pointed out exactly the flaw. The mining laser is quite a bit cheaper than the particle laser...and at mk6 handily outperforms it. The 'range' penalty is basically gone and, with full damage to shields, more than makes up for the slightly lower base damage.

[d[-_-]b]

Originally posted by Captain Oscar:

Pulse turrets are great mixed with a laser on the barracuda. 4 Mk6 Pulse with a mining laser is great due their rapid fire, especially with buffs.
Plus they make the xbox 360 controller...pulse!

Uhm...nope. They've got a range advantage on particle laser. But that's about it. MK6 Particle, even taking into account the lower shield penetration, still does more overall damage and cannot miss. 40% of 750/s is still a 30% increase over the 233/s you get from Pulse. And once you break through shields, Particle damage skyrockets. Pulse just has no practical use.

um...nope...it has a very practical use.

What is the point of playing with a MK6 laser set up that removes any challenge?

The whole "point" of a small ship loaded with pulse and maybe one laser is that it is "strong enough" coupled with skill but is not so overpowered that you stop playing the game BECAUSE YOU ARE A LASER GOD AND CAN DESTROY ANYTHINGS IN TEH REGABLS GALTICS UNIVERSALS. KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

What's the point of that?
It's fun to do once then it's like...meh.

It's a game.

I want to pop in every now and then and just have some fun that takes a little work, not turn on a laser machine to auto fry mosquitos. Fun the first time, boring as hell afterwards.

Setting up the right ship with weapon balance you can still squeeze a little fun out of RG after 100 hours. A bit like popping into Unreal Tournament Black and having a quick blast.

I can still take down anything with the pulse setup (even in a barracuda with only pulse turrets) and it's a helluva lot more fun than the disco light laser machine. Plus xbox 360 controller goes nuts so it's more kinaesthetic feedback as well.

[mcqueen]

I keep a mix and have always had Pulse turrets in the mix. I use Photon broadsides exclusively, too. Currently I have 2 MK 6 Pulse, 2 Mk 5 Veridians, 2 Mk 6 Miners, 1 Mk 6 Particle, (all set to all ships), and 1 Mk 6 Leech turret (set to fighters only). The Leech fires a fighter class at long range. The Pulse guns are firing constantly (I'm sure they do damage and get kills now and then), and any smaller ship that gets within laser range is toast in a few seconds. I like and take advantage of the longer range of the Mk 6 Photon broadsides very often. Works for me. :)

[HoshinoRuri]

Lasers do have a deficiency they don't work when you are running your deflector and the projectile turrets do.

[Boxgirl Gremlin]

I've found pulse turrets to put pressure on capital ships more easily from range. Then again, I run with Proton cannons because I don't like hugging ships.

[LostSoul]

Originally posted by HoshinoRuri:

Lasers do have a deficiency they don't work when you are running your deflector and the projectile turrets do.

No weapons work while deflectors are active.

[Mistfox]

I think he means you can pulse your deflectors like when using them to absorb missiles. Lasers will cut out as they have a spin up time but pulse will instantly start firing the moment you drop the deflectors.