Game is ruined by Schizo II fighters

[xyianth2]

I'm flying a Minotaur completely covered in mk6 gear. On a mission rated as Very High risk, I can warp in and destroy entire fleets while taking 0 damage.

On a mission rated as Low risk however, 1 Korian Schizo II mixed in with the other ships can destroy my shields and hull in 1 burst of fire (under 2 seconds).

This is insanely frustrating, especially when it is clearly not a fluke. On missions that require you to save friendly ships, just one of these fighters can destroy the friendly ships in seconds, before you even see it.

Now, I know all about Viridian Lasers, but it would take 10+ simultaneous bursts from mk6 Viridian Lasers to drop my shields in under 2 seconds. Korian Schizo IIs do it with 2 beams. 2. There is no weapon in the game that even approaches that level of damage. They aren't firing any missiles, so Shieldbursters and Antimatter Probes aren't the cause of this insane spike of damage. And keep in mind, that I mean insane here. If you add up my hull + shield + shield regen + deflector, I can soak about 67000 damage in 2 seconds before taking damage to my ship. (15k+38k+11k+3k=67k) 1 Korian Schizo II can do that much damage in 3 shots.

And that's not all. Korian Schizo IIs appear to be resistant to EMP flak as well. (or at least resistant enough that a couple bursts don't disable them) And it takes concentrated fire of 7 mk 6 Mining Laser turrrets to take down 1 of these ships. I've experimented with a lot of different strategies/technologies to deal with these ships, and absolutely nothing works. I'm to the point now that as soon as I see a Korian Schizo II, I leave and abandon the mission. (assuming I haven't already failed it because my friendly ships have been vaporized)

Every other ship in the game has strengths and weaknesses, counters and options. The game is great fun, especially to someone like me that still enjoys playing Freelancer on occasion. But this one ship is ruining all of the fun every time I encounter it. Sometimes, I go hours without seeing it, other times it shows up in 3 back-to-back missions and I just ragequit.

Is anyone else having a similar problem? Have you found a method to deal with these ships? Are there any tools for compiling/decompiling the .PAK files so I can manually patch the game? I very dearly want to love this game, but this one ship is preventing that.

TL;DR: Korian Schizo IIs are ruining this game for me, anyone know a good way to deal with these?

[RadarCDN]

The fighters are not OP if you know what you're doing. First off, do what Darphnix said and slap some Mining, Particle, or Korian Lasers and config them for anti fighter duty. Get the Rebound deflector, anti-disruption component, and Flak Secondaries. The reason for this, is because you'll be ambushed by these bastards more often than not and left crippled speed wise. Trying to turn and burn, while getting hit by more disruption missiles, leads to you getting an asskicking.

Instead, try to draw them TO you. Spin in a circle, fire up the deflector, even go into manual targetting mode if you have nothing but lasers and start blasting everything coming at you. You'll be reflecting the ion/blaster bolts right back at them, and tearing them up with the lasers, making your job a lot easier.

You'll get a couple of them doing this. Your deflector will likely fail, and you might take severe shield damage, but you'll be robbing them of one very important advantage:

The ability to attack just one screen. They'll break and try to swarm your ship on all sides rather than staying in formation and attacking one screen. This is why running is suicide. If you run, you'll leave yourself facing a swarm of fighters with just one shield facing them, and they'll tear you to pieces before you can turn. This is much worse than dealing with the closing circle of fighters right at the beginning of an ambush. Plus, they'll be within flak range at this point, meaning you can tear them up pretty quick. Manually targetting them at this point with lasers, and sweeping through the cloud of them can rack up 5-6 kills before you overheat. Relying on auto targetting will see your cannons stopping to re-acquire a new target and having to charge up again.

Do this, and any capital ships that are near by will be a drastically reduced threat.

[Caplion]

i like them, they give me some challenging battle, you will notice everything shooting at you is doing nothing to harm you but this fighters. Make you take it seriously and carefully, they are not impossible, they are beatable, they make the battle fill with colour. not a sure win like a god!!

treat them like korian super ace weapon. even in real world there is some super weapon a country want to hide for ambush suprise for their enemy.

[Darphnix]

Just an example why Schizo II is unbalanced:

McKinley – Full MK5 (Highest of the sector) 100% intact
Mission classified RED
Ringambush with quite a few Schizo II in it
In around 3-4 sec the ship died even using deflectors.

I’m all for challenge (why I took red in the first place), but that’s not a challenge. When all Shields/Armor on all sides at the same time melt like snow in a volcano, there is no challenge just death. I could not counter in any way. Tried it 3 times.
1. Deflectors up and shooting with everything I got => DEAD
2. Running (with my slightly modded boosters) => DEAD
3. Switching to a pure anti fighter setup => DEAD

[Caplion]

my method is run away after the ring is appear. I almost can run away from the ring almost everytime except some careless case.

[Darphnix]

Maybe you’re a better pilot.

Did you have similar parameter? It’s not that they are impossible in every way, but I see quite a few scenarios were they are. Then again it might come down to the fact that stats increase rather heavy from one tier to the next (ca. +50%). In retrospective, I never had any problems with fully MK6 equipped ships.

Why I still think they are not balanced is the fact that they fire with lasers aka 100% accuracy and a DPS which is probably around 7 times stronger than any other fighter. It’s like fighting with a lion and sometimes one of the flies surrounding you two has a bazooka.
I wouldn’t care that much if all had this kind of advanced enemy. Hell they are more dangerous than the whole Viriax faction.

[Caplion]

oh, the emp reducer system is needed and maybe deflector absorber, null grave booster best engine u have that same with your highest weapon mk. with that, i can flee from the ring of death even with mckinley

[saliddry]

Originally posted by Darphnix:

I was just scouting through the gamefiles and there is a very strange reason why Schizo II is EXTREMLY dangerous. Their weapons are a “little” better than anything else.

2250 Damage (50% Shield / 150% Hull) - Normal MK6 enemy laser
4500 Damage (80% Shield / 120% Hull) - Schizo II MK6 enemy laser

They have literally exclusive weapons just for Schizo (I & II) which outperform every equivalent.

I’m not sure how the damage calculation for these laser weapons exactly work but the difference could be harder than the 2250 vs. 4500 and more like 1286 DPS vs. 9000 DPS
And after that little boost there is something in the file called MARK_MULTIPLIER which is 1 on normal and 3 on Schizo *speechless*

Well if you could look into that ♥♥♥♥ file ... why not post here where to find it so we can change that ♥♥♥♥ and add in normal numbers

[Laz3456]

One tactic I have used quite often is Null Grav Boosters straight in one direction (using deflectors as needed) and mines or HS missiles as secondaries, so I punch through the ring scattering many mines or missiles as I go thereby preventing pursuit, then kite them to death.

Cheers,

Laz

[bpfoley89]

I used to get annihilated by fighters, especially swarms of them. Then I got EMP flak as a secondary and watched them die as I held the button down since there was no ammo to it.

[xyianth2]

Huh, just got back to civilization to find a bunch of activity, awesome.

First, thanks for confirming that these fighters are completely on a level of their own. At least now I don't feel like I am going crazy.

Second, I get that with the right build, the right strategy, and a little luck you can take on 2-3 of these at a time without dying. This is only half of the problem though. The thing about these ships that ruins the game is that they render several mission types completely impossible. Not because they can shred the player, but because 2-3 of these ships can destroy any AI vessel that you are supposed to protect, long before you have a chance to even get close enough to see them on radar. You cannot do any of the safe passage, rescue, or join the battle missions because they require that your allies survive. If a schizo II spawns, wave goodbye at the wreckage that was your ally's vessel.

For the record, I fly a Minotaur with EMP flak, Neutron Beams, and 100% mining laser turrets; all mk6. I can survive in a fight with a couple of these fighters. I've yet to win unscathed, but I usually don't die. What I have not yet done is completed any mission that involves protecting/rescueing/escorting an AI ship once a schizo II shows up. It's basically an auto-fail.

From a game design standpoint, these fighters are completely unlike any other threat in the entire game. I can fly through a minefield while getting blasted by 15+ fighters and 5+ captiol ships without even dropping my shields. Just one of the schizo II fighters can do more damage than all of that combined in a matter of seconds. That level of disparity simply cannot be intended. Either schizo IIs are far stronger than they should be or everything else in the game is far weaker than it should be. All I know is that if I were a Korian, why would I bother building any other ships? Just build 10 schizo IIs and rule the galaxy with an iron fist.

[Gertjan]

i installed flaks as my secondary weapon (mark 6, obviously), and just keep the button pressed for a contineous wave of explosions to the side of my blackgate; anything that gets within 2 sm gets blasted into tomorrow; including missiles.
this, plus a full deck of 16 particle lasers (half of them are mk6, they are expencive), means that i can just focus my proton cannons on taking down destroyers and dreadnaughts from 4-6 sm range, and the turrets will block everything else.

I do those superclusters, which are full of schizo IIs, by warping into the centre of the mission area and just stopping., placing my coffee on the shift key and waiting.

[Kyozaru]

Been a while since the last post here but yeah, been stumbling across this problem as of late.

For the solutions that have been proposed here:
*Kiting - Slow ships will get shields shredded pretty fast. You risk dying while trying to run for your second strafe.

*Flak - Effective range is shorter than Schizo II OP Beam cannons. You might ultimately manage to destroy it but if your quadrant that has been fired at repeatedly isn't already shredded and your power core compromised, the other accompanying ships will do the job or make it hurt alot worse.

*Flak + Spinning - Well, now OP beams will compromise the shields on at least 3 of your quadrants and other ships will tear at the hull. If that f***er came with capital ships, your flak is worthless and if both your port and starboard hulls get wrecked with internal components, good luck using your broadsides with busted targeting.

Fortunately only about half the systems in the game have missions spawning Schizo II's among its Korian strike forces. And in those spawns, you generally have the luck to face maybe only 2-3, and not all at once. With that luck, you may have the further luck in the Schizo II actually being in your targeting sight for long enough for you to actually do something about it.

In general, I try to avoid missions that suggest Korian intervention, and when I don't have a choice in the matter I usually die once, then come back with the knowledge that there is in fact a Schizo II hidden in the mess and deal with it early. I currently use a Polaris - Dreadnaught with Mk5 (soon to be Mk6) Neutron Beams, which let me broadside snipe the Schizo at roughly 5.5sm if I have the luck to see it coming. If I don't, it tears into my deflector, shields, and hull and contends with another 6 particle lasers at 3sm.

Needless to say, it's a gamble. If I see the mission as one I have to win no matter what, I'll let myself die and try again from scratch to finish it off, at least for escort/guard based ones. Otherwise I keep my head up, blast away, and pray I won't see those ominous green strobe-like lasers...

[juanofallgames]

Thanks for the input guys. about to buy a mckinley and this is definately food for thought.

[bpfoley89]

Yeah, my setup was just Laser Broadsides, EMP Flak, and a mix of Mining Turrets, Laser Turrets, and Pulse Turrets.

[Bozobub]

While I've seen them and respect them well enough as opponents, I rarely have much issue with Schizo IIs (Currently in a Lvl 6-equipped Minotaur). But I also played for a long time in a Sturville (and finished the plotline in it), so I already was in the habit of drawing the fighter cover away from their charges, much as I draw out the capital ships, themselves, one by one.

Even though I tend to take a cautious approach, I'll note that I only rarely lose missions. I'm rather sure that I DO NOT want the game to be any easier, however, so I see no need for any changes that do so.

If you think fighters are over-strong in this game, try the Independence War series (especially the 2nd) for a rude awakening! And the frigates/destroyers in those games are MUCH badder-ass than the ones in Rebel Galaxy ^^' . In fact, nearly every 2D or 3D space combat game has rather strong fighters/bombers; anyone here recall the Sins of a Solar Empire series? Or wa-a-ay back, and the whole Wing Commander series? Or Colony Wars? Remember, ONE torpedo or bomb from an airplane can sink a capital ship, with a bit of luck and skill, in real life =o.

Edit -> I AM, however, going to try that EMP flak, I just about never use my HS-missile secondaries, anyhow, so why not?

Edit 2 -> Another thing that helps is Neutron Beam broadsides + Broadside Extender. Neutrons simply erase fighters one after the other, pop-pop-pop...