ENDLESS™ Legend

ENDLESS™ Legend

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Davor Sep 18, 2014 @ 9:54am
How fun is this game?
I have bought Endless Space and thought WOW, nice looking game, felt like MOO a bit, then it fizzled off big time for me. For me, Combat SUCKS big time, and just hated the look of the technology tree.

Now that I see Endless Legend is released I don't have much confidence in the game. I feel like playing a new game, but not sure what to do. Played Warlock 2 for a bit, tired of it now. I see that as well as Endless Legend, Age of Wonders III has a new expansion pack out as well. AoW III just didn't grab me so on the fence if I want to try EL, or AoW III.

So my question is, is Endless Legend fun for you? If so why?

Is there espionage in the game? I love the spy game. How is it here if there is one?
I want to build cities. Warlock 2 didn't do a good job, AoW III did a terible job in it, how is city building and expansion in this game? I want to feel I am building an emprie which I feel I am not doing in the other games I mentioned.

While I loved how the planets looked in Endless Space, I want game play and not just good graphics. I would say the graphics in Endless Legend are not great, but good, I am hoping the game play is better.

-What does Endless Legend have that is fun?
-How is the combat in Endless Legend?
-Can we make our own units, or is there a variety of units to choose from?
-Is there Heroes in the game? If so, how many can you have?
-How is the tech tree? How is the research aspect of the game?
-Is there happiness in the game, or how do you keep moral in your cities/empire?

What do you like about Endless Legend and what do you not like/hate about Endless Legend?

I just want to make sure I am making a proper purchase before buying games I don't play no more.

Thank you for your time reading my post.

Davor
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
ositodefelpa Sep 18, 2014 @ 10:35am 
As someone who did not like Endless Space (particularly the combat) and was rather bored by AoW III, I'd be interested in views on these questions, too.
Cross{x}Hair Sep 18, 2014 @ 10:52am 
Last edited by Cross{x}Hair; Sep 18, 2014 @ 10:52am
Davor Sep 18, 2014 @ 11:07am 
I just read that review Cross. It sounds promising, but I am not sold. Too many questions left unanswered. For alot that was said, alot was not told.

So many questions still remain unanswered. Still that review makes the game in a postive light.
Reaps Sep 18, 2014 @ 11:31am 
I like the combat system in Endless Legend over their previous illeration End Space - which I feel was ES's biggest flaw. If you have played games like Fallen ENchantress or even Kings Bounty / HoMM and enjoyed the combat in those games you will like the one in EL.
Last edited by Reaps; Sep 18, 2014 @ 11:31am
Noxious Sep 18, 2014 @ 11:49am 
-What does Endless Legend have that is fun?
So far for me, quite a lot. Exploring Ruins, doing quests, side factions that can grant special bonuses to your Empire based on how many of their villages are on your territory, and even use Luxury Resources to grant your entire Empire a huge boon for a duration. Luxury resources can be pretty hard to get, but those boons can make a huge difference. In the case of a specific race, getting the +50% Dust Acquisition is a massive gamechanger.

I also love how you can CREATE new Races/Factions with starting properties of your choice, using a system to spend points on specific Traits. That is amazing to me.


-How is the combat in Endless Legend?
The combat is pretty solid, but it's not a Turn By Turn combat system; you give orders at the beginning of the turn, knowing who goes first/second, etc., and then the combat resolves. As far as I'm aware, you cannot interrupt a sequence that is already started. If an enemy you had initially targeted dies before the entire sequence resolves, you can have a preset behavior for your units to take (Offensive, Defensive, Hold Position), so they will revert to that as a baseline action to take. And, of course, it's hexagon-based. High ground, obstacles, etc.


-Can we make our own units, or is there a variety of units to choose from?
There are two types of resources: "Tactical" and "Luxury" resources. Tactical resources are used to make armor/weapons/accessories for your units. You can research new units, you can modify their equipment, and you can retroactively upgrade units that have already been on the field, provided you have the resoruces and that they are positioned within your territory. You can recruit mercenary units from the Mercenary Marketplace, and you can also make units belonging to minor factions you assimilate into your empire after you have completed a quest (or, alternatively, razed their city and rebuilt it).

And yes, you CAN make NEW units of your own design :D


-Is there Heroes in the game? If so, how many can you have?
So far I haven't seen a limit on the amount of Heroes you can have, but they are very well-done. You start with a Hero, and you can then recruit some at a Mercenary Marketplace, which you can build after researching it very early in the game. Heroes have racial abilities and talent points. They can be left in town as garrison, and they can provide benefits for the city they live in. Some of the benefits are absolutely insane, and well worth playing around.


-How is the tech tree? How is the research aspect of the game?
The research mechanism is not linear in the way that it is in a lot of other games as there are no "tech trees", but simply Eras. The way it functions is that you have to research a certain amount of Era 1 techs in order to advance to Era 2 techs. For instance, you could research some resource gathering techs in Era 1 and skip over the Era 2 gathering techs if you wish to research +science/army stuff, but then pick up the Era 3 gathering techs. Since you can craft Era 3 weapons/armor without necessarily having had the intermediate Era 2 weapons/armor, this is definitely a viable option.


-Is there happiness in the game, or how do you keep moral in your cities/empire?
There is an Approval system. The bigger a city, the bigger the Approval loss. Some technology can help mitigate the Approval loss (Sewer System, Central Market, etc.), and some specific traits can also help with that. Some of the Empire-wide boons can be activated through the consumption of Luxury items as well. Other than that, surrounding a city/district with other city/districts also reduces the loss of Approval, as far as I've been told (never tried it myself). It's good enough to keep an eye on, and not aggravatingly crippling. It feels right to me.
Last edited by Noxious; Sep 18, 2014 @ 12:30pm
Vieux Chat Sep 18, 2014 @ 11:52am 
Originally posted by Davor:
Is there espionage in the game? I love the spy game. How is it here if there is one?
No. there's just one faction that can have some info through the fog of war but that's all. Devs had ideas for making espionnage interesting, but they didn't habve enough tim eto implement them as they already had a very long list of things to implement. They are seriously thinking about an espionnage extension. They want to do it right. They don't want an half-done job just to please people that would like to have one.

Originally posted by davor:
I want to build cities. Warlock 2 didn't do a good job, AoW III did a terible job in it, how is city building and expansion in this game? I want to feel I am building an emprie which I feel I am not doing in the other games I mentioned.
I would say it's way better than warlock and AoW3 (but warlock and AoW3 are wargames, they are not an empire building game). If you like sprawling cities, then there's two factions rally good at it : a faction that can eat others and build borrough like mad, and the other faction has only one city but a hell of a city.
Most buildings aren't seen on the map, but the borrough yes. Extractors must be built on the map and are not obligatory built near your town, creating targets of opportunity.
Roads are researched and created automatically. So they really feel organic and you won't see them spammed everywhere.
the most interesting thing to note is the region mechanic : each region has only one town, but you'll be able to build some things outside of it. Borrough are connected to town center, watchtower must be built on ancient foundations, extractors must be built on top of the resources.
So I would say that even if there is not a gazillion different building, there's enough to feel like having a real kingdom.

Originally posted by davor:
While I loved how the planets looked in Endless Space, I want game play and not just good graphics. I would say the graphics in Endless Legend are not great, but good, I am hoping the game play is better.
There's a lot behind the gameplay at the moment. One important thing is to note that the release is not at all the end, but th estart of the "EL adventure". Devs will listen to feedback and tune the game to be more interesting as it already is.
The one town per region, the Empire plan, the Market, the Winter/Summer mechanics add a lot of layers. Diplomacy is interesting but will need some balancing in the next few weeks/months as the game has a lot of underlying mechanics that are intertwined.
It's important to note that th efactions really play differently : a faction with only one city, another which doesn't use food, another that eats their enemies, another that have spells, one that can teleport units between cities, another that can easily force others to wage war or declare peace, one that profit a lot from the market and can easily change the position of their cities.

Originally posted by davor:
-What does Endless Legend have that is fun?
Quests. Story. Management. Empire-building. The winter mechanic.

Originally posted by davor:
How is the combat in Endless Legend?
It's simple but subtle. There's a lot of possibilities. RNG can't totally nail you to the floor. In the same time it can create worth-remembering moments.

Originally posted by davor:
-Can we make our own units, or is there a variety of units to choose from
Like in ES, you have "designs", you can get more design by buying them on the market or getting them from assimilated villages of minor factions. Then you have equipment you can add to those designs to create the unit you need.
Each faction has few core designs, but you can buy more designs, then customize them. So there's a lot of possibilities from few core designs.

Originally posted by davor:
-Is there Heroes in the game? If so, how many can you have?
Yes. Dunno.

Originally posted by davor:
-How is the tech tree? How is the research aspect of the game?
The tech tree isn't a "tree". You have 6 different eras. Each time you research 9 tech from your era, then you advance to the next era, unlocking new researchable tech. There's no things like "pre-requisite". So it's really free-for, but the twist is that costs always get higher as you advance, whatever the level of the researched tech. And there's more than 9 techs per era, so there will be techs you won't take because you prefer researching higher eras techs. You won't always take the same tech each game.

Originally posted by davor:
-Is there happiness in the game, or how do you keep moral in your cities/empire?
Yes, there's happiness. Each time you build new borrough, thyus expanding your city, you get -5 happiness. There's buildings to get happiness and some anomalies will also give you more. There's an expansion disapproval mechanic. Happiness can have good/bad consequences on food and prod. some luxury resources can give you momentary happiness boost.


Hope that will help you make a decision :)







Varivox Sep 18, 2014 @ 12:21pm 
I might be skewed in my opinion because I liked ES (though, I only liked it after the disharmony expansion). So take that into consideration. I also have not (yet) played today's release verson, so some of this might be a bit out of date (by a couple of days).

Q: What does it have that is fun?

A: For me, it does everything 4x pretty well. It's pretty. Empire management is pretty good, I don't think you can set tax rates/area, but each population can be assigned to specific tasks (a population 4 city has 4 icons that you can move to producing more industry/food/science/diplomatic points/dust, you can move them into 4 seperate areas or all together). Minor factions add in a bit to the formula too. Each province has 1 or more minor faction villages that need to be dealt with or else they'll keep spawning maurading armies. Deal with them by either bribing them to jion peacefully, doing their quest (both bribe and the quest require Tier1 tech btw), or conquest. Doing so gives your city a "bonus" population member, a field of vision, and, more interestingly, if you assimilate a specific minor faction, you can train their units to field.

Almost forgot, one really cool thing for me is that those luxury goods that you get in something like Civilization (for example) can be activated for special bonuses to your empire. They can also, with the right technology, be sold to the black market for dust.

Q: How is the combat?

A: It's far better than ES's card system imo, but not as deep as AoW3's system (which tbh is the only deep part of that game). Combat progresses in rounds, and between each round you issue orders and stances to take. Hit ready and the round progresses and the units move/attack where you told them to. You aren't actively telling units where to go and what to do, you aren't moving each piece individually, but you do have a bit of control. IMO, this is a good system, but I can see where some would have issue with it.

Q: Units?

A: Each faction has 3 basic units (not counting the settler) to make. However, you can customize those units to your liking. Drakken have their base unit as a lizardman with a sword/shield and no armour. If you research glasssteal(?) armours, you can equip them with armour that gives them a huge initiative bonus, or the alternative metal (forget the name) gives them huge critical bonus. You do have access to "Iron" armour/weapons as well, and these give mostly boring stats, but they do the job. The other metals give weapons cool bonus effects and each weapon type (the aforementioned Drakken lizardmen can use sword/shield or 2h spears) has unique boons. So, while you only have 3 base designs, you can design them to drasticly alter the way they work in your army.

Q: Heroes?

A: Yes, but I'm not sure on the limit tbh.

Q: Tech tree and research?

A: The tree is divided into 6 eras. To progress to the next era, you need to research X amount of the previous era's technology (not sure on the exact number, I THINK 10 or so). Otherwise, it's divided into 4 categories (kinda like ES's) but you are free to pick and choose from each era. As of the last beta patch, Era 6, the final one, techs gave only a basic (and boring) +100% FIDS bonus, so that is sad, but other than that, most techs are buildings/unit customizations. Overall, I like the research.

Q: Happiness?

A: Yes. I have been told I don't understand 4x games for this mechanic in these forums but I laughed. Anyway, as you found more cities, your expansion disapproval increases. Some techs provide a flat "-22% expansion disapproval" empire bonus, other techs unlock buildings that provide "+25 approval" (note the lack of a % there), that have to be constructed to gain their bonus. So, you do have to contend with that, similar to Civ games. Other ways to increase happiness is to get your hands on luxury resources. Most of them, once activated for their bonus, give a wide range of approval bonuses to the entire empire. Some only give +5, while others give +30. The nice thing is that you really only need 1 extractor of that luxury good to keep the bonus going 100% of the time as you gain 1 resource every round for each extractor.

Q: What do I like/not like?

A: I like it a lot. I think the additions of minor factions and tangible luxury goods adds in a lot to the game. I would have liked more base units maybe, but the current system's ability to design your own units helps this (I just like more models!). One thing I like is that every faction is distinct from the other. Necrophages can't make peace while the Roving clans can't declare war. Broken lords don't regen, but can buy their healing with dust. etc.

Q: Would I recommend this game to 4x lovers?

A: Yes. It's pretty, it's deep in all the right places, it has a few flaws, but I think that overall, the flaws are minimal compared to all the great parts of the game.

I do want to say that between EL and AoW3, I'd go EL any day, beta state or no. AoW3 had great combat, but apart from that, failed imo. EL has actual diplomacy (no faction hates you because it's walking their units through your land:HappyMask:) and empire management. The combat may not be as good, but everything else is miles above AoW3's. :spy:
Phantus Sep 18, 2014 @ 1:37pm 
A lot of very generous people on this board or they simply have succumb to the low standards set by the gaming industry today. Allow me to give a different opinion. People keep going on about the graphics being good...they aren't. I thought this entire time the "look" was simply a placeholder for the real crisp, tight graphics...it's not. It looks like pastel colours bleeding onto the screen and the terrain layering almost looks like Minecraft or Lego. To their credit, some fine art otherwise (load screens/thumbnails etc), just not in-game.

Another thing, people keep saying is the combat is good...what are you talking about? Poorly drawn models fighting other poorly drawn models, barely any combat animations with very little in terms of strategy/capability. You'd never buy this game for the combat. My Elven hero looks like it's shooting a bolt from its wrist out of rubber band. It arcs slowly towards the enemy at a velocity that would have it fall on the floor or at best, mess up your enemies hair.

If you like city management, which I do, it's the same as Endless Space FIDS system. Definitely not for everybody as it can be tedious for the casual gamer. There's no real story line either, much like a lot of 4x4 games, it's a sandbox...ready, set...meh. I wanted to like this but it's more of a shell of a game in my opinion. Without proper campaigns and a compelling story it remains lifeless as most 4x4 are, even though the factions and basic lore are intriguing. To each their own I guess. I simply expected more.
Big Poppa Sep 18, 2014 @ 3:30pm 
yea when people said it was better than civ 5 on here i bought it last time i turned it on i was bored in 15 min seemed very slow and just flat out boring and combat is really lame they could have done much better and it seems like they just did a really quick rush job to get it out of early access
MaGicBush Sep 18, 2014 @ 4:40pm 
Originally posted by Big Poppa:
yea when people said it was better than civ 5 on here i bought it last time i turned it on i was bored in 15 min seemed very slow and just flat out boring and combat is really lame they could have done much better and it seems like they just did a really quick rush job to get it out of early access

Different strokes for different folks.. I don't find strategy to be the least bit boring, but that's why we have many different games to chose from. Of course I have yet to play a 4x game I find boring. Unlike the others here I actually liked Endless Space and have over 70 hours in that and never did mind even the combat in that game. Though the sieging of systems did irritate me how long it took.

I am torn between this and AOW 3 atm. I am leaning towards buying this, especially since it unlocks some stuff for Endless Dungeons if I hurry and get the founders pack(which I already own and love lol). I think I will just wait on AOW3 until it's next sale(or a HB deal) as from what I have seen all that has going for it is combat and I love diplomacy in games. In response to the post above yours I am not sure how you can find a 4x game lifeless though that just seems plain wrong and most of these types of games are about life building empires.. they are not about storylines and campaigns lol you are in the wrong genre.

Overall thanks for the thread it pointed out what I wanted to see as well to convince me to buy it :).
Last edited by MaGicBush; Sep 18, 2014 @ 4:51pm
bytestream Sep 18, 2014 @ 4:56pm 
Go for EL, it's a way better 4X experience than AoW. However, if all you want are tactical battles than AoW is the game for you.

Either way, read my review http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198021671677/recommended/289130

I lost my 900 thumbs up cos I switch from Not Recommend to Recommended :<
smidlee Sep 18, 2014 @ 5:43pm 
I watched Das "Let play video" a while back and notice just how overpowering archers are. Because of this the combat seemed very dull. I wondered have they address this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmNOiLz0Ihp2rJRU43e6A9rj
Last edited by smidlee; Sep 18, 2014 @ 5:47pm
bytestream Sep 18, 2014 @ 5:48pm 
From my point of view combat is pretty balanced right now. I however have no clue how strong the Cultists are since they are new in the release version.
Davor Sep 18, 2014 @ 6:53pm 
I am almost ready to buy the game. Just want to make sure of a few more things.

Is there magic in this game? Being a fantasy game, I am wondering if we can cast spells. So far watching Youtube videos I don't see this, like you can cast magic spells in Warlock 2.

Since I see there can be a few or many islands, what kind of boats and ships can we have? Is there naval combat?

I see there is like dragons race or army. I see they fly. Are they the only flying race or can other races fly and have flying units?

*edit*

Just saw to expand a city you make a burough. So how many of these can we make? So if we have a city, can we add like 5 burroughs and then the city can be like 20 hexes? Or you can extend the city say 10 hexes away in one direction? Is this why you can only have one city per district? This seems interesting?

Also you can build a burrough on your own hexes for more benift instead of expanding the land around the city?
Last edited by Davor; Sep 18, 2014 @ 7:00pm
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Date Posted: Sep 18, 2014 @ 9:54am
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