Supremacy Victory

[gwelty]

On the Status Screen, describing a Supremacy Victory in a tooltip: "You must conquer three capitals to achieve this victory condition."

Well, haven't I done that? I'm the Mezari, and I've conquered the capital of the Cultists, the Ardent Mages, and the Roving Clans. I know this, because "Founder's Memorial" is not only in my capital city, but in a city that I've captured from each of these three other factions.

There are, of course, two remaining capitals I haven't yet captured: from the Vaulters and the Broken Lords. But if I had to capture *five* other capitals, why does the victory condition say "You must conquer three capitals to achieve this victory condition"?

What am I missing?

[FerrusPugnum]

sounds like you should get it but I wonder if they mean wiping out three races as the capital keeps moving until they are dead. Just a guess of course.

[Zer0]

Originally posted by FerrusPugnum:

sounds like you should get it but I wonder if they mean wiping out three races as the capital keeps moving until they are dead. Just a guess of course.

Wiping out a race is for the Elimination victory, Supremacy is indeed taking over other factions capital cities. Not sure what you mean by "captial keeps moving" though.

[Zer0]

Originally posted by gwelty:

On the Status Screen, describing a Supremacy Victory in a tooltip: "You must conquer three capitals to achieve this victory condition."

Well, haven't I done that? I'm the Mezari, and I've conquered the capital of the Cultists, the Ardent Mages, and the Roving Clans. I know this, because "Founder's Memorial" is not only in my capital city, but in a city that I've captured from each of these three other factions.

There are, of course, two remaining capitals I haven't yet captured: from the Vaulters and the Broken Lords. But if I had to capture *five* other capitals, why does the victory condition say "You must conquer three capitals to achieve this victory condition"?

What am I missing?

Can you post a screenshot of the status screen?

[Crai-Crai]

A Supremacy Victory is achieved when you capture ALL enemy capitol cities. No idea why it says only 3. If there are only 2 remaining, it would be conceivable that it would say you must capture 2 capitol cities (the 2 remaining) to win.

[Steb]

As far as I know, it doesn't matter whether you capture the enemy capitals or if another opponent captures or destroys them. As long as you are the last player to still be in control of your capital you win. So in a three player game player 1 could capture player 2's capital and then player 2 could destroy player 1's capital using privateers. This would result in a victory for player 3 even though they didn't do anything.

[gwelty]

I find it interesting that there's such diversity of opinion among experienced players of the game, as to how to actually win the game in this way.

Yes, I'm talking about Supremacy Victory, not Elimination Victory.

@FerrusPugnum, your comment that "the capital keeps moving until they are dead" either applies to all factions, or only to the Roving Clans. If all factions, then that transforms every Supremacy Victory into an Elimination Victory, which can't be right! One would have to conquer all cities of all factions to get a Supremacy Victory, as the needed capitals would be ever elusive, constantly 'retreating' back to the faction's very last city. If only the Roving Clans, then that is very interesting: it makes sense that the Roving Clans would have a bit more mobility in this respect. Nevertheless, I *did* capture their capital at the time.

@Zer0, I'll try to get a screenshot shortly.

@Steb, that still doesn't explain why the Status Screen would stipulate the conditions of my Supremacy Victory as "You must conquer three capitals to achieve this victory condition." As far as I can tell, there are only two capitals left in this six-player game: Vaulters and Broken Lords. As far as I can tell, I've conquered three capitals already: Cultists, Ardent Mages, and Roving Clans.

*Unless*... the Roving Clans 'moved' their capital to another city I haven't seen yet, as soon as I captured their capital. Can they do that?! But one would think that if I am really just one capital away from victory (getting this 'new' Roving Clans capital), the game would have popped up a notice that I was about to win.

[gwelty]

@Zer0, here's the screenshots.

The first one shows the tooltip that describes the condition for Supremacy Victory:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=383293828

The second one doesn't show the tooltip, so that you can see all factions in the list:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=383293985

BTW, Cultists and Ardent Mages have been eliminated at this point, though I took each of their capitals. I've also taken a capital from the Roving Clans.

[Zer0]

I just started a new game with 4 players: myself and 3 other AI. The Supremacy tooltip says I need to conquer 4 capitals so I would assume it counts your own capital as well. If that's the case, then the 2 remaining AI capitals plus your own equal to 3.

According to your screenshot, 3 capitals have been conquered so far: one by you and one each by two other AI. That leaves 2 more capitals plus your own.

[gwelty]

@Zer0, wait, wait, wait... so when the Supremacy Victory tooltip says: "You must conquer three capitals to achieve this victory condition," what it means is that I must conquer the two remaining AI capitals *and* conquer my own capital, for a total of three?!

That doesn't make much sense. I have to 'conquer' my own capital?! I'm not rejecting your view out of hand, but if it's correct then the devs picked an exceedingly poor way to state the condition, don't you think?

Or am I misunderstanding something?

BTW, you say: "According to your screenshot, 3 capitals have been conquered so far: one by you and one each by two other AI. That leaves 2 more capitals plus your own."

But that interpretation is deeply mysterious. First, I captured the Cultists capital (the city has Founder's Memorial). I captured the Ardent Mages capital (the city has Founder's Memorial). I captured the Roving Clans capital (the city has Founder's Memorial). I still have my Mezari capital (i.e., no one has captured my capital). So I've captured three capitals so far, not one.

Second, if it's the case that the Broken Lords and the Vaulters each captured a capital from another AI earlier in the game, they must have captured *each other's* capital (since the other four belong to me: Cultists, Ardent Mages, Roving Clans, Mezari). I guess this is possible. But does this mean that there are now no more capitals left for me to capture?

Sorry for the length; I'm deeply interested in this, because it affects whether I try for Supremacy Victory in the future. I'm not going to try if I don't understand how it's done.

[Crai-Crai]

I think it's just a poorly worded tooltip. Your own capitol must be included in those 3, because there are only 2 others left besides your own. You just have to make sure and keep it.

On further reflection, I was wrong about needing to capture the other capitols to win. Steb is correct in that you only need to be the last person in control of your own capitol. So in theory, if all the AI players captured each other's capitols (an unlikely event), you could win a Supremacy victory without firing a shot.

More common is the situation where one AI captures another AI's capitol and just reduces your needed count by one. I usually play on Normal difficulty, which means the AI isn't very aggressive, and I've gotten used to capturing all the capitols myself.

[Zer0]

Well they are French, maybe something was lost during translation? I'm just speculating since that's what the facts tell me. When starting with 4 factions and it says you must conquer 4 capitals to win Supremacy, then one would assume it means you must keep your own capital while conquering 3. The whole idea behind Supremancy is that your faction must have the only capital standing.

A city having the Founder's Memorial doesn't necessarily mean it's the capital. That building can be built in ANY city. A capital will have a crown symbol besides the city name. Are you sure you took over a city with the crown?

[gwelty]

@craig, OK, that's very interesting! "So in theory, if all the AI players captured each other's capitols (an unlikely event), you could win a Supremacy victory without firing a shot." That makes the Supremacy Victory pretty unique. In the future I'll try to look out for things turning out as you describe.

Notice, however, that this conflicts with the description of SV in the official manual (p. 52): "Dangerous and effective, your troops hold sway over all the centers of power on Auriga. In addition to your own capital city, you have also conquered the capitals of all the other empires upon the planet. Victory is yours!" On your view, I *don't* have to conquer all the other capitals. I just have to hold my own.

@zer0, yes, I can't deny what it told you when you started a new game. Well, we'll see how my game ends. Also, thanks for the heads up about Founder's Memorial. Only one can be built per empire, but that doesn't mean it needs to be in the capital. I guess I overlooked that.

So perhaps everything is explained by the fact that the Roving Clans may have their *real* capital just outside the fog of war in the east (where I haven't gone yet). That would make three capitals left.

Thanks for your help.

[Zer0]

I haven't played Roving Clans so I have no idea how their capitals work (if any different). When when attacking a city, just make sure it has the crown symbol which means it's the capital.

[Crai-Crai]

Originally posted by gwelty:

@craig, OK, that's very interesting! "So in theory, if all the AI players captured each other's capitols (an unlikely event), you could win a Supremacy victory without firing a shot." That makes the Supremacy Victory pretty unique. In the future I'll try to look out for things turning out as you describe.

Notice, however, that this conflicts with the description of SV in the official manual (p. 52): "Dangerous and effective, your troops hold sway over all the centers of power on Auriga. In addition to your own capital city, you have also conquered the capitals of all the other empires upon the planet. Victory is yours!" On your view, I *don't* have to conquer all the other capitals. I just have to hold my own.

Honestly, I don't know anymore. :-) However, actual experience can differ from what the manual says, so please share your experience of what happens in your game.

Perhaps it is the player who controls the most capitols including their own? That seems to be the way it works based on the score screen.

[Crai-Crai]

Just loaded up a game I'm almost done. I have my own capitol plus all others except one capitol (the Drakken still have their own). I got "close to victory" messages from the game saying that I only had to take one more capitol for Supremacy, and also that the Drakken only need to take one more capitol for Supremacy. So this means that the Supremacy victory does NOT require you to capture all capitols, and the manual needs better wording.