ENDLESS™ Legend

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Kapaku food problems
Guys i need help.
I try and try and try and try...
I even restarted the game over and over and over again...
But i never, EVER, seem to get food in my starting regions... Even the volcanic ones...
There are like 2-3 spots with 1 or 2 food, and they arent even together.
Even cranking out anomalys to the max i get DOZENS of +8 industry etc etc... but never any food.
Even trying to build on a river, rushing the tech for food from rivers usually makes it so that im so far behind my enemies that it really doesnt matter...

Can anyone help me, explain to me, HOW just HOW is this faction playable... let alone viable...
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
Gilmoy Oct 23, 2020 @ 12:38pm 
Kapaku have the faction trait: Can only see/gather/use Food on volcanic terrains.
So you'll never see normal food on grassland.

Kapaku's starting terrain has a lot of:
0 food: Barren Land, Basalt Plains, Lava Swirls, Volcanic Terrain
1 food: Scorched Wilds, Inland Waters

plus small amounts of:
0 food: Ocean
2 food: Badlands

So it's normal that you have only 3-6 Food in any possible turn-1 colonizable tile.

I've never played as Kapaku, but I've conquered Kapaku regions and made them productive. Offhand, I think it would be like playing any other faction that starts in bad terrain with low food, like Vaulters upon tundra.

Briefly: I think Kapaku are supposed to put some workers in Food, all game long. Many of your +food techs pay +k food/pop.

Era I: Put some workers in Food?
Cultivation/Husbandry Center (+5 Food/pop) is a possible gambit.

Era II: You may need 1 +food tech, probably Public Granary.
Era III: Plow Factory solves all of your food woes.

Beware, Plow Factory is so good that all other human players will take it, too, so this only keeps pace, and you'll still be behind them in food. The stock AI overlooks it, so you can probably overtake AIs on food soon after you enter Era III.

Era IV: Anaerobic Mycrobiology/Wyrm Farm. It's almost identical in effect to Public Granary, but at far higher cost, so get Public Granary first if you're going for this path.

With the full stack of Husbandry Center (+5 food/pop), Public Granary (+2 food/pop), and Wyrm Farm (+2 food/pop), your Husbandry Center city (usually your capital) earns 13 food/pop, plus any hero and accessory bonus. Other cities can get up to 8 food/pop. That's surely worth leaving 1-2 workers in food permanently.

~~~~~~~~

I start a new Kapaku game (for the 1st time ever). I reroll the start 4 times until I get a region that can fit a 2x12 stick city. (If your turn-100 stick doesn't fit on turn 1, reroll.) I luck out, and it's also a Pacify/Gather game (which is the 2nd-easiest combination, behind only Pacify/Activate). I have only 2 anomalies, which gives only 1 possible hex to colonize, and it's a monstrous 44(!)-pt tile, with 9 Food and +10 Approval, and eventually 3 river tiles and access to the sea. OK, maybe this is an above-average start :steamhappy:

On turn 1, I earn 7.2 food = +1 pop in 4 turns. That's fast enough. I plan to leave my first 1-2 pop in Industry, and build Founder's Memorial, Geomic Labs, Mill Factory, and Seed Storage. By then, I should have 3 pop, and I could leave 1 in Food. Thereafter, it should be like any other game start.

If I had only 2-4 Food, I might put the 1st worker into food. If you choose a tile with 2 Food 22 Industry, you can park 1 worker in Food forever, and it's approximately the same as a 6 Food 18 Industry start (for the first couple dozen turns).

~~~~~~~~

I expect that Kapaku's bigger challenge is that it can't expand easily, because most regions are non-volcanic, and thus have zero food for Kapaku. I guess Public Granary + Plow Factory is your lifeline.

Also build Winter Borough in every region, level them up to L2, and wait for winter. But every faction does that regardless, so again you must do it just to keep pace.
Last edited by Gilmoy; Oct 23, 2020 @ 12:42pm
Originally posted by Gilmoy:
Kapaku have the faction trait: Can only see/gather/use Food on volcanic terrains.
So you'll never see normal food on grassland.

Kapaku's starting terrain has a lot of:
0 food: Barren Land, Basalt Plains, Lava Swirls, Volcanic Terrain
1 food: Scorched Wilds, Inland Waters

plus small amounts of:
0 food: Ocean
2 food: Badlands

So it's normal that you have only 3-6 Food in any possible turn-1 colonizable tile.

I've never played as Kapaku, but I've conquered Kapaku regions and made them productive. Offhand, I think it would be like playing any other faction that starts in bad terrain with low food, like Vaulters upon tundra.

Briefly: I think Kapaku are supposed to put some workers in Food, all game long. Many of your +food techs pay +k food/pop.

Era I: Put some workers in Food?
Cultivation/Husbandry Center (+5 Food/pop) is a possible gambit.

Era II: You may need 1 +food tech, probably Public Granary.
Era III: Plow Factory solves all of your food woes.

Beware, Plow Factory is so good that all other human players will take it, too, so this only keeps pace, and you'll still be behind them in food. The stock AI overlooks it, so you can probably overtake AIs on food soon after you enter Era III.

Era IV: Anaerobic Mycrobiology/Wyrm Farm. It's almost identical in effect to Public Granary, but at far higher cost, so get Public Granary first if you're going for this path.

With the full stack of Husbandry Center (+5 food/pop), Public Granary (+2 food/pop), and Wyrm Farm (+2 food/pop), your Husbandry Center city (usually your capital) earns 13 food/pop, plus any hero and accessory bonus. Other cities can get up to 8 food/pop. That's surely worth leaving 1-2 workers in food permanently.

~~~~~~~~

I start a new Kapaku game (for the 1st time ever). I reroll the start 4 times until I get a region that can fit a 2x12 stick city. (If your turn-100 stick doesn't fit on turn 1, reroll.) I luck out, and it's also a Pacify/Gather game (which is the 2nd-easiest combination, behind only Pacify/Activate). I have only 2 anomalies, which gives only 1 possible hex to colonize, and it's a monstrous 44(!)-pt tile, with 9 Food and +10 Approval, and eventually 3 river tiles and access to the sea. OK, maybe this is an above-average start :steamhappy:

On turn 1, I earn 7.2 food = +1 pop in 4 turns. That's fast enough. I plan to leave my first 1-2 pop in Industry, and build Founder's Memorial, Geomic Labs, Mill Factory, and Seed Storage. By then, I should have 3 pop, and I could leave 1 in Food. Thereafter, it should be like any other game start.

If I had only 2-4 Food, I might put the 1st worker into food. If you choose a tile with 2 Food 22 Industry, you can park 1 worker in Food forever, and it's approximately the same as a 6 Food 18 Industry start (for the first couple dozen turns).

~~~~~~~~

I expect that Kapaku's bigger challenge is that it can't expand easily, because most regions are non-volcanic, and thus have zero food for Kapaku. I guess Public Granary + Plow Factory is your lifeline.

Also build Winter Borough in every region, level them up to L2, and wait for winter. But every faction does that regardless, so again you must do it just to keep pace.


Yes, you basically cannot expand... It also cost (A LOT) of resources to terraform areas to suitable lands. and the Terraform is (very) small... really not worth the price... but ur forced to pay it if u want anything at all...

The problem with this lies in that... well... ANY other faction does not have this handicap. They can grow like crazy, whether its expanding or just building bigger cities... they will always be ahead of you that way.

Well fine... on higher difficulties that is nothing new...
But it comes to the point in which i have 3 cities and enemies roam around with minimal lvl 6 armies.
I need to put everything in getting a city running or it will fail.
I need to do my quest or i cannot afford to even get millitary...
Even if i get military on higher difficulties the AI will out tech you therefore have stronger armies.
If they can make 4 units of lvl 4 per turn and i can make 1 of lvl 3 per turn... im going to be over run... time and time again.

All of that boils down to food....
Without food, no population, no districts, no expansion, and a difficulty in working industry/science.

As for the techs, lets just assume i have godlike science (science on volcanic lands is pretty good, but never better than an impossible AI... but lets assume that id have TWICE their science). Im still forced to go for every damn food tech in order to grow, leaving millitary far behind, even if i would be eras ahead of my enemy due to a 2x science boost (for this bs scenario) then it would still take me like 5-9 turns to make a single unit...

And i really dont get it, ive seen plenty of YouTube videos about the Kapaku... and when i see those regions they basically have at least 1 food on EACH tile...
Like where does that come from? If id have 1 food on each tile then well it wouldnt be great... but it most certainly be a 500% increase in food.
Currently in MOST of my cities, food productions stops after 4 population untill i get the tier 2 research... During winters my food just goes negative and all the food i worked for vanishes....


I have NEVER survived long enough to reach Era 4 with the Kapaku... im swarmed by enemies long before then...

Gilmoy Oct 23, 2020 @ 3:23pm 
I'm playing Huge Many Continents vs. 7 Endless AI + ELCP.
On turn 23, just into Era II, my lone city has 46f 76i 40s 53d 5j, with all 5 pop in Industry.
Food isn't the main problem (yet). I do get 14.5 Food from Spices booster, which means my base Food is 31.5. My city grows +1 pop every 7 turns or so, which is slow, but not terrible.

The real bottleneck is that I'm fighting many neutrals, and my lone hero never has time to heal.

My starting region has no Era I resources at all: no strategics, no luxuries. So I must colonize a neighboring region just to get some Ti/Gs income. I expect the 2nd city will suffer for a dozen turns with 1 worker in Food and a crappy build rate.

As for outlasting AI armies later on, I expect 7 Endless AIs to beat each other up and ignore me on my continent. It actually suffices to build 10 troops + your starting 2, and merge into 6+6. With proper unit mix and tactics, you can invade another continent and beat down an Endless AI's 8 armies of 6 with just your 6+6, and conquer all of its cities. So I never worried about keeping up with the AI's build rate.

I never play vs. 7 Endless AIs on a single big continent. You'll be surrounded and wiped out swiftly, no matter what faction you are. The one gimmick I rely on is Many Continents, and hope I'm alone or with only 1 neighbor.

If you're not seeing 1 Food per tile, maybe you got a bad start with not enough Scorched Wilds. I swiftly abandon a game on turn 1 and reroll it if I can't see how a 2x10 stick city will fit (i.e. miss all lakes, cliffs, ruins, and villages). You could extend your criteria to also require some Scorched Wilds and/or excellent anomalies.
Gilmoy Oct 26, 2020 @ 3:39pm 
I spoke somewhat in haste :steamsad: I'm learning Kapaku :steamhappy:

+ I see what you mean by 0 food.

I tested about 20 Kapaku game starts.
More than half were turn-1 rerolls because bad lakes/cliffs blocked all possible 2x8 stick cities.

Kapaku always starts in volcanic terrain, so its Born of Ash trait doesn't prevent food.
But some game seeds give you all Barren Lands/Lava Swirls, which have 0 food each.
Other seeds give you Badlands/Barren Soil, which have 2 and 1 food each.

So it totally depends on the map seed. If you see 0 food total on turn 1, maybe reroll game.

+ On volcanic terrain, Kapaku gets food from:
++ anomalies (always, even on turn 1)
++ governor hero skills
++ city improvements that give +food on tiles, esp. Plow Factory
++ Winter Borough in winter :steamhappy:

+ I learned to build volcanoformers.

I now think that a starting region with 0 Ti/Gs resources is a major handicap, possibly worth rerolling game. Kapaku stockpiles early Ti/Gs to volcanoform its 2nd region before it colonizes. Goofball style points for using your Settler to lay down its own volcanoformers on the way to its colonization hex :)

It took me 3 cities to learn the optimal tiling of volcanoformers under a 2xN stick city. You can use the volcanoformer UI as a puzzle tool to deduce how much food each terrain will contribute after its conversion to its volcanic form (i.e. whether it becomes Scorched Wild with 1 food, or something with 0 food). Actually, it's always worthwhile to volcanoform every future exploitation hex, even if it has 0 food on its own, because of Plow Factory.

~~~~~~~~

Here's 1 example from my 2nd Kapaku game. Turn 73, Era III with 3/9 techs, I captured Cultist AI's lone city, with 9+0 pop and a 2x3 stick layout.

- Turn 62: 00 tile food, from Born of Ash. I lay down 3 volcanoformers.
- Turn 68: 13 tile food, from 1 anomaly, 8 Scorched Wilds, and Altar of Auriga.
- Turn 73: 40 tile food, from Plow Factory * 9 exploitations.

The 5 districts (1 City Center + 4 Borough Streets) are also Scorched Wilds, giving +1-1 = 0 tile food currently, but they're eligible for more tile food later from Winter Borough.

With city bonuses, but no governor and 0 workers, it has 85 food. That's not excellent, but it's playable. Food is no longer a critical problem, only 1 problem among many. Elsewhere, I lag in science because I haven't built any +science improvements, and city districts because I have no spare workers to put into food.

In this game, I elect to pursue the Husbandry Center Gambit. My 2nd city has Public Granary for +2 food/pop, and had run out of things to build. I don't need more units (yet). I trail badly in the race to 30 pop for Era V Beloved of the People: even after capturing a city with 9 pop, I'm dead last. So my 2nd city built the 1-per-empire Husbandry Center for 4+2+5 = 11 food/pop, and now it puts all workers into Food, except a few in Industry to get -1 turn build time. It has 170 food = +1 pop every 4 turns. Next turn it finishes Plow Factory for 8*3 = +24 tile food +55% = +37.2 => 200 food, which is nearly +1 pop every 3 turns. That's pretty good for early in Era III. With all 9+4 pop in food, it will be at nearly 290 food. This city will be my Settler producer, for at least 3 Settlers. I rarely bother with Husbandry Center when I play other factions, but it makes sense for Kapaku.

From experience, though, the gap feels normal for playing vs. 7 ELCP Endless AIs. I'm dead last in every metric, but think I'm totally winning :steamhappy:
Gilmoy Nov 3, 2020 @ 4:30pm 
New game, with the latest ELCP v2.6.0. ELCP Endless now kicks my butt again :steamhappy:
I dropped down to ELCP Impossible.

Era VI. Kapaku have an odd, but fun, progression. They feel like this to me:

Eras I-III: The Epoch of Food. Volcanoform, build food techs, worry about food.
Era III-V: The Epoch of Industry. Must build city improvements and units non-stop.
Era V-VI: The Epoch of Science. Ack, Era V techs cost 8k-11k each, and I generate only 1.5k.

Fortunately, it's also the Epoch of Land Wars, and I can always win a straight fight.

~~~~~~~~

From many game starts (through late Era II), I learned how painful it is to have only 2 cities (= 2 build queues) when Endless AIs start visiting your continent with armies of 8 and Settlers. Even with a "perfect" start (alone on continent, Pacify 8 to win Visionary Leader), you need more build queues by the time things get hot.

As a test, I gritted teeth and adhered to the "1 city per 20 turns" schedule. It sounds like a newbie rule, but there's a deep point underlying it: Buy an empire plan (and activate boosters) at the k-city cost, then instantly settle your (k+1)st city -- preferably on turn 20*k + 0. This means you must make the decision to build that Settler right around turn 15, 35, 55, etc, so that it arrives just in time.

For Kapaku, this means you also must lay down the first 4 volcanoformers in your new region right around the time you start building the Settler, to minimize the waiting time for tile Food. This introduces 2 constraints, which are unique to Kapaku:

- need early Ti/Gs strategics
- need 1 unit in the vicinity

I learned to modify my exploration routine. Regions adjacent to my capital are the obvious candidates to colonize (because of trade routes). If I see a must-have region that is #1 on my list to colonize, I'll choose the best tile and lay down the 4 volcanoformers while I'm exploring, even 10+ turns before I build the Settler. It's the same cost in strategics, but it frees up my units to wander away and not need to come back.

~~~~~~~~

Anyways, decent start: Pacify 8 (which I won), 2 anomalies +10 Approval, 1 Titanium, 2x11.5 stick would fit, and Hurnas. OK, they're my longbows to shoot down Necrodrones, haha.

West neighbor has 1 Glassteel = volcanoformers + settler #1 on turn 15, colonize on turn 20. Its first 3 districts touch 7 anomalies :) Era II on turn ~24. With Central Market, I can keep 3 cities Fervent.

East neighbor has 3 Ceratan :steamhappy: Wow, that's my healer + longbows, I'm set. Settler #2 on turn 35, colonize on turn 41. It has Ti + 2 Ad, but no Glassteel.

Turn 55 = settler #3, colonize on turn 61 for more Glassteel + 3 more Hurnas. Around this time, I learned that (a) I'm alone on this continent, and (b) this continent has 0 Palladian. I research Shipyard and visit the continent to the west. The 1st region I land upon has 2 Palladian, and I instantly lay down its volcanoformers. This is Cultist's continent, and we have a brief scuffle, but I realize she's #2 in military and invading Necrophages, so I cease targeting her villages. No Peace, but we leave each other alone.

Turn 76 = settler #4, colonize my 2 Palladian on turn 81.

Meanwhile, my other cities are gradually becoming Industry monsters, out of necessity. I learned more of Kapaku's "epochs".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Epoch of Food
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Hoard Ti/Gs/Ad/Pa, and volcanoform.
+ 4 volcanoformers suffice for 1 city until it's about 2x3. Later, you add a 5th, then a 6th.
+ Get all cities Fervent.
+ Era II Public Granary, Era III Plow Factory, and 3rd winter's Winter Borough to L2.

I ceased looking at Food around Era IV. In Era VI, on turn 112, my 5 cities have 176, 350, 159, 155, and 148 food, all with 0 workers. I don't have any Era IV +food tech, including the Kapaku faction tech Anaerobic Mycrobiology for its +10 Food tome. I might need that later, once my conquest starts rolling.

This is nothing compared to Cultist's 2k food, or Ardent Mages' 5k food with 4 radius-2 food pillars, or Broken Lords' 20-50k dust per turn from Crematorium, but it's enough that you can play the rest of the game and beat them all in tactical battles.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Epoch of Industry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cultist, Mykara, and Ardent Mages don't need Era IV help. Kapaku does. I got both Era IV techs Borer's Guild and Industrial Processing as quest loot. Other factions balk at the 15 Ad cost of Automated Production, but Kapaku excels at converting strategics into FIDS. Put it this way: Automated Production costs less than 2 volcanoformers :steamsad: At that price, it's a bargain!

+ Era II Management Sciences
+ Era IV Automated Production (5 Ti, 15 Ad) and Production Line (10 Ti, 10 Ad)

With all workers in Industry, and Chapel of Auriga in every region with 2 or 3 villages, my 5 cities earn 735, 897, 1115, 728, and 510 industry. That gives decent build times of 1-2 turns for my Era VI units and ships (~1k each), or 2-3 turns for Era IV improvements at 1.3k each. So my cities methodically build their way through everything buildable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Epoch of Science
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I never caught up in techs. I have 48 techs In Era VI, trailing 5 of 7 AIs with 50^ (Necrophages), 51, 51, 52^ (Roving Clans), and 57. The two marked ^ have 1 Era VI tech each (and neither one chose Serum of Iteru), so they're 1/5 of the way to the Scientific Victory. At 10k and 14k Science, needing ~115k per tech, they're 7-10 more turns from a 2nd tech, and 30+ turns from winning. I shall surely conquer and digest Necrophages long before then, but Roving Clans worries me. I'll conquer him next.

I earned about 8 free techs from quests, and traded for about 5 more, so my Era far exceeds my Science production. In mid-Era V, I still had only ~1.5k science total, and an Era V tech takes 6-8 turns. Science becomes the focus. Kapaku's Endless Fascination trait gradually becomes a monster: in Era V, every successful search earns 300-450 Science! You can search 8 ruins per turn and rack up +3k Science! Alas, ruins are a finite resource, so this is a windfall, not a true income.

+ Era III Statistical Methods
+ Era IV Endless Mechanisms -- for Kapaku, this counts as a +Science tech. I used it for:
+ Era IV Imperial Funding

I skipped Era II Alchemy Workshop, and still haven't gone back for it. Mostly, once you hit the Epoch of the Parabolic Conquest, you capture the other AIs' Alchemy Workshops.

My cities earn 1091*, 735(_), 377, 669*, and 252(_) Science = 4k total (with Moonleaf running), with Imperial Funding either * already built, (_) not yet built, or not worth building (in regions with no tile Science). Era V techs cost 12k = 3 turns, Era VI costs 106k = 27 turns (ugh). Clearly, Kapaku won't win by out-racing Impossible AIs to Serum. Hence, keep going for FIDSJ, +approval, and enough military strength to win 8+8 duels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Epoch of Strategics
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kapaku has a funny endgame. Since volcanoformer cost increases quadratically, Kapaku get a massive faction tech to boost strategics production: Era V Volcanic Leecher (2k + 10 Ti, 10 Gs, 9 Ad, 9 Pa) for +5 resource on strategic resource generator. Yes, this stacks with everything else that boosts strategics:

+1 base production
+1 Era IV Borer's Guild.Mining Rights (1.2k + 10 Ti, 10 Ad)
+5 Era V Volcanic Leecher
+2 Kapaku hero's faction skill subtree tier-4 Geomantic Wiles L2
x2 2nd winter Strategic Intensifier
====
18 strategics from 1 resource, and 9 each for all other resources in the region

Diligently build up your +Industry improvements, and you can grind through these improvements at the same rate. Kapaku's Era VI strategics production goes wonky, like this:

+25 Titanium
+09 Glassteel
+32 Adamantian
+02 Palladian -- it's just now building Mining Rights
+26 Mithrite
+08 Hyperium

per turn, with only 5(+1) regions. Also, Eclipsed Temple searches gave me doses of 50 Mithrite or 40 Hyperium, at least 5 times each, so often that it's no longer even surprising. I have 386 Mi, 240 Hy on hand, and I find more faster than I can spend it. Palladian is the bottleneck. (In other games, it's different.)

The gist of Kapaku is that it needs this kind of production to offset its sky-high volcanoformer costs. I conjecture that Rampaging Kapaku will transition into a phase where it ceases to volcanoform new cities (probably by the 8th or 10th city?), and instead builds only Public Granary and Wyrm Farm, and equips Tome of the Lithophage, for a constant +40 Food. That's enough to keep a pop-20 city from starving. So Kapaku doesn't expect its 10th+ city to be growing cities -- by that point, it shall conquer more and go win the game.

High costs + high production does give late-game Kapaku a massive fringe benefit: it scoffs at piddly strategics cost on guardians and Tempest ships. I design my usual endgame Tempest ships, with Life and damage as high as I can get. I don't have Era IV Rare Alloys for tier-4 Mi/Hy ship weapons, so I build tier-3 Ad/Pa weapons and tier-4 Mi/Hy armor.

industry + dust, Ti/Gs Ad/Pa Mi/Hy:
515+10, 3/3, 0/0, 4/9: Boarding Vessel, Forcefield, Boarding Party 2, Improved Movement 3
545+10, 0/2, 4/3, 7/4: Boarding Vessel, Tidal Mastery, Boarding Party 3, Rare Plating

That's my gimmick to win the seas. The Forcefield ships can take any 1 hit with 0 damage, with highest Initiative so they always pin enemy ships or Maw fronds. At L10, they have 191 Life * 40% + 101 Damage = 177 damage alpha-strikes, fairly lightweight. The other type will have 318 Life * 50% + 101 = 260 damage hits, which suffices. Swarm any fleet with 8+8 of these, and beat them down with impunity. Now, most factions really suffer when paying that much Mithrite/Hyperium (~100+ of each), but Kapaku shrugs it off like it's less than 4 turns' worth of production.

I also killed a random quest Neros to gain Era V Neros, which was my 45th tech and booted me into Era VI. On a whim, I built the costliest Neros on the menu:

2220+30, 14/0, 8/5, 4/30: Neros
+ Vortex of the Polar Ice (Damaging Charge)
+ Stone of the Core (Intimidation Aura)
+ Jewel of the Wild Rivers (Glory or Death 2 = +1 Morale per adjacent enemy unit)

Silly fun: my 3rd city (with >1100 industry) built him in 2 turns. Since we're in Era VI (= all new units have +(1+2+3+4+5)*40 = +600 XP), the governor has the tier-3 Tome - Dust - Legendary (+80 = +2*40 XP), and I have Quicksilver running, he's born with (15 + 2) * 2 * 40 = 34*40 = [(1+2+3+4+5+6+7) + 6] * 40 = L8 and 240/320 XP. New ships in that city also get +40 XP from Coastal Battery, and are born at L9 and 0/360, exactly. (Of course, every AI who's also running Quicksilver gets exactly the same benefit.)

My 386 Mi, 240 Hy is what I have left after I built a Neros and 8 ships. On looking back, I probably should have been more maniacal about upgrading my grunts with high strategics gear. Kapaku actually do have the endgame economy to do this, so maybe they should plan to do it from around Era IV.

[_] Kapaku Mithrite Gambit: The first time you get 50 Mithrite from a ruin search, immediately spend all of it on your troops. You'll find more later. Don't hoard?
Last edited by Gilmoy; Nov 3, 2020 @ 7:50pm
Gilmoy Nov 3, 2020 @ 4:30pm 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Epoch of Conquest
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Necrophages is in this game! Orcs with longbows do shoot down Necrodrones :steamhappy:

I stopped at 5 cities of my own, and skipped the Settler on turn 95, because I was already en route to invade Necrophages, and I expect to capture all 13 of its cities.

My late-game armies are Orcs with longbows + Driders. I saw that combo around turn 3, when I revealed Ceratan adjacent. Stone Sentinels are immune to Disease :steamhappy: Golem Riders you need for the faction quest. This combo works because it ticks all of the boxes for a functioning tactical army: grunts, speed, ranged, and healers.

I skipped my Era I Geomancer, and still haven't researched Era IV Cultural Indoctrination. I lean toward a flier for my 3rd minor faction.

I invade Necrophages the usual way: park 6+6 on his coastal city's siege fence and watch his armies buzz toward me, like Space Invaders in slow motion. Every turn, attack away from the fence at an adjacent enemy army, win that battle, kill as many reinforcements as I can. This coastal city happens to be Necrophage's capital. After 3-4 turns of battles, I wipe out about 6 armies of 6-8, and his capital's entire militia, then walk in, lay down 7 volcanoformers (ugh!), and promptly assign a Roving Clans governor with Feet on the Street 2. That's my 6th city, already producing 974 Science before it builds Imperial Funding.

Then my Neros lands on the coast, and instantly gets jumped by 3 + 3 militia reinforcing. I run him around like a Burdeki, always moving 4 hexes to generate +55% Attack from Charge 1, +55% Damage from Damaging Charge, and a Tsunami Charge cone of depth 4. That one fight earned 990 XP (solo!) and leveled him up to L10.

Sad: That left the city Moch completely empty, and Broken Lords strolled in and captured it.
Sadder: My spy in Moch was at infiltration level 4, only 3 turns from level 5.
She remains infiltrated because the city wasn't captured by me.
But I lose the chance to apply a level 5 effect vs. Necrophages. Argh.

Capturing 1 city didn't make the war easier. Now I must defend it vs. an 8 on my city's N edge, 8 and 7 on my NW doorstep, 4+3 arriving from the NE, and an L7 Fotios with 320 Damage, whom the AI correctly keeps close enough to reinforce. OTOH, I can see that Necrophages AI has emptied his nearby 2 cities of all garrison guards to do this.

Killed the 8 on the N edge, and walked NW to stand adjacent to the 8+7. Next turn, I shall fight 8+6 + L10 Neros vs. 8+7 + L7 Fotios. I think a few more turns of this will exhaust most of Necrophages' home continent armies, and then I can take its cities.

So far, I've lost 1 Golem Rider (when a Justicere critted it with Cavalry Slayer 4). Also, Neros took almost 50% damage in that 1 fight, and I don't have the healing deed. Fotios could one-shot crit anybody I have. Nonetheless, I expect to grind through Necrophages and capture its half of the continent, eliminating it, in about 15 turns, with 0 further casualties.

All EL ground wars look roughly the same. On turn 3, I saw Hurnas and Ceratan, saw exactly this outcome, built it, am doing it, and so it shall ever be. It's always ranged and a healer, and the ranged wants longbows in case of Necrodrones. Factions with Support ranged units, like Ateshi Zealot or Dust Bishop, have fun in their own way.

1 down, 1 taken by an ally, 11 to go. Now I need the +Approval and -Expansion Disapproval techs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Epoch of Goofing Off
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alas, now that I don't really need more help, I'm finally picking up the Kapaku faction techs. I never could fit them into my earlier build paths.

+ Turn ~100: Era V Volcanic Leecher. This is a must-have, top-choice tech.

+ Turn ~110: Era III Siege Engineering (1 Industry stockpile per 100 siege damage)
I probably wanted this around turn 90, as part of my 1st war's prep. I did inflict 600+ siege damage to take Necrophage's capital, which could have earned me 6 Industry stockpiles. OTOH, I also don't have either of the stockpile techs, so my stockpiles are worth the default 100i, which is nothing.

Cultist has a similar dynamic with its Era II Destructive Analysis, but Cultist wants both stockpile techs already.

+ Turn ~118: Era II Golem Camp (400i + 5 Ti 5 Gs, creates a Cultist village, haha)
I feel that I'm missing a key concept in early Kapaku. OK, the cost is comparable to a 3rd winter pearl district (400i + 10 or 20 pearls). You get a village-like building anywhere in your region with garrison + vision, 1 full hex ring of FIDSJ, +1 worker in your city.

- In Era I, 1 full hex ring = 21 FIDSJ with 0 anomalies, or ~28 for Kapaku.
You'll pick the best available spot, so you should get 40+ FIDSJ. The +1 worker is worth 4 FIDS. In total, it could pay for itself in ~8 turns, and is all profit thereafter.

- In Era VI, 1 full hex ring = 137 FIDSJ, and +1 worker is worth 14 Food, or 19 Industry, or 20 Science, or 19 Dust, so call it +19 FIDS. Also, the build cost drops to 238i. So it makes a profit in (gasp) two turns. Also, you can use this to exploit lava rivers to leverage Era III Magma Hydraulics.Lava Works, or water rivers for Ice Works and hero skills.

So I surely got something wrong here. Kapaku probably "must" research Golem Camp fairly soon, maybe as your 3rd - 5th tech in Era II. Next time I play Kapaku, I'll know better.

~~~~~~~~
Summary
~~~~~~~~
Kapaku do feel early growing pains. In Eras I-III, you do occasionally move a few workers into Food, just to keep growth up. After Plow Factory and Winter Boroughs, those worries fade (but only because you worry about other things more).

Kapaku are late-game monsters in strategics. Things that you could never build with any other faction are not even a blip to Kapaku, because they pay more than that just to grow Food.

Kapaku probably do eventually surpass most factions in FIDS, because volcanic terrain is intrinsically higher in IDS (and lower in F).

Kapaku fight land and sea wars as well as any other faction does. All land wars look the same. All Tempest sea wars are the same, except that Kapaku thinks those ships are cheap(er than Food).
LeaderEnemyBoss Nov 4, 2020 @ 11:01am 
Only reason to delay golem camps imo is if you plan an early war and need all production for armies. They are very good, especially if you have secondary anomaly clusters in the region.
ElPrezCBF Nov 7, 2020 @ 12:28pm 
There are many other ways to increase your food production. You don't have to terraform every tile, just mostly those with anomalies to maximize your benefits. Necrophage heroes make great governors because they give you significant food boosts and unit cost reduction. Research food techs as a priority and use luxury boosts to your advantage.
Gilmoy Nov 7, 2020 @ 1:45pm 
I love Necrophages governors, and all heroes with Food Boost. I love Necrophage governors with Food Boost :steamhappy:

1. You can usually afford 15 volcanoformers. That's 5 each * your first 3 colonies.

You do want to volcanoform all starting tiles under your first ~3 cities, because of Plow Factory and Winter Borough. Later, you capture many cities in wars, and you do leave most or all of them not-volcanoformed.

+4 volcanoformers under your city suffice until it's about 2x3.5, so it takes 7-8 districts before it overflows. That's 40-50 turns without having to worry about it again. After that, you're in a later Era with more resources, and you could easily afford a 6th and 7th.

+1 volcanoformer for Golem Camp :steamhappy: You can rake in +50 FIDS from 1 good Golem Camp. Add Plow Factory (+3*7 Food) and L2 Winter Borough (+(4+4)*7 Food and Industry), and a decent Golem Camp site earns ~125 FIDS(!) in winter.

- Funny: volcanoformed lakes and coastal waters are distinct from normal water, and do pay you tile food. Hover over them, and they say +1 Industry from volcanic terrain, and no longer say -1 Food from Born of Ash. Conversely, I suppose they no longer pay food for any non-Kapaku faction.

2. You eventually must volcanoform 1 entire region anyways, for your faction quest Chapter 8.1.

Pick your smallest region ;) and envision (even before you settle!) how you'd optimally cover all of it with the minimal number of volcanoformers. Mostly, this means you avoid leaving 1-hex corners along the edges. Early on, this might "force" you to pay +1 extra volcanoformer for your Golem Camp site, or similar, but later it could save you from +2-4 more volcanoformers for those edge hexes you left uncovered.

3. A governor with Food Boost makes a massive difference to a new colony.

- Strikes Far (Necrophages) has Food Boost 3, Industry Boost 2. At L2, he can instantly lift a new colony from 2 Food to 14 Food = 7x, which cuts the turns-to-grow to 1/7th, from 17 turns (very bad) to 3 (almost too fast). Eventually, he can add +30 Food from Necrotic Agriculture L3, +45% Food from Cadaverous Pesticides L3, although I haven't gotten him that high yet.

- Loremaster Semsanitnwona (Drakken) has Food Boost 2, Influence Boost 3. Rarely, you even get water rivers in volcanic terrain, and his Irrigation Expert (+1 Food on terrain with river) pays off in your Dust Dredger/Ice Works regions.

- Soyala Tocho (Wild Walkers) has Food Boost 2, Industry Boost 3. His Woodland Forager (+1 Industry on terrain with forest) can pay off in a captured city that you didn't volcanoform. Funny: Then he builds Lumber Yard :steamhappy:
Gilmoy Nov 7, 2020 @ 7:34pm 
Hah! This is the funniest Unintended Quest Interaction ever!

===================
A. The Blitzborrow Raid
===================
1. I finally learn (after 1,400 hours) the wacky art of the blitzborrow raid. My 6+6 make one deep penetration into the enemy backfield (here, Broken Lords), capture 4 cities, leave them behind, and sprint on to the next city.

2. I expect the AI to recapture these cities in 4-8 turns. So I'm only borrowing them. I get +500 Science and all of their luxury + strategic resources per turn, and this AI doesn't.

3. I don't have spare troops to garrison them, so I leave them empty, no governor, with all workers in Science (and accept starvation, to hurt the AI).

4.a) I run enough boosters (esp. Wine) so that the -45 Expansion Disapproval doesn't hurt (yet).

4.b) I grit teeth and pay the higher luxury booster price to renew boosters. Ideally, you'd time this raid to commence just after you renewed boosters, and the cities get recaptured before you pay again. Anyways, the borrowed regions produce more than I use, so they pay for themselves, and even make a small profit.

4.c) If the AI recaptures all of its cities before the next empire plan boundary, then my empire plan costs don't go up :steamhappy:

Over 30+ turns, you could repeat this entire cycle 2-3 times, and repeatedly kill enemy troops, capture cities, use them as Science engines (while you govern them into the ground), then let them go before the bill comes due. Any faction could do this, against any AI factions ...

======================================
B. Kapaku Ch.7: A World of Non-Refundable Cities
======================================
... but Kapaku introduce a truly adorable confound. In faction quest Ch.7 A World of Endless Fire, three neutral quest armies spawn in 3 random regions (possibly overseas), with the behavior: Walk directly to the Kapaku player's nearest city, and siege it, but never attack. Probably this AI behavior must hard-wire neutral quest groups to never attack a city, because having a neutral army "capture" a city is probably outside the scope of EL's game description.

Now, this happens concurrently with Broken Lords AI walking its own armies back to its former cities to attack-and-recapture them. And -- Broken Lords AI has lost the race :steamfacepalm: I now have 2 of my "borrowed" cities sieged by my own Ch.7 neutral quest groups. Therefore:

B1. Broken Lords AI can never siege these cities itself!
B2. Broken Lords AI can never attack these cities through another player's siege fence!
B3. Apparently, the AI will never attack a neutral quest army from a different player's quest.

So ... this is an unbeatable defense that completely stops an AI. Broken Lords AI' armies have arrived on the neutral siege fence, but it can never recapture these two cities while those quest armies live :steamhappy::steamsad:

So I keep those 2 cities "forever", until I stroll that way and kill off my quest groups myself. Hah!
Last edited by Gilmoy; Nov 7, 2020 @ 7:37pm
Gilmoy Nov 7, 2020 @ 8:34pm 
Whoops! A neutral quest army can attack your city, which razes it!

City Razed
Your city in the region of __ has been razed by the empire of Wildlings

Yaay, -1 city on turn 78! Broken Lords AI won't get that city back, either, hehe.
Originally posted by Gilmoy:
Kapaku have the faction trait: Can only see/gather/use Food on volcanic terrains.
So you'll never see normal food on grassland.

Kapaku's starting terrain has a lot of:
0 food: Barren Land, Basalt Plains, Lava Swirls, Volcanic Terrain
1 food: Scorched Wilds, Inland Waters

plus small amounts of:
0 food: Ocean
2 food: Badlands

So it's normal that you have only 3-6 Food in any possible turn-1 colonizable tile.

I've never played as Kapaku, but I've conquered Kapaku regions and made them productive. Offhand, I think it would be like playing any other faction that starts in bad terrain with low food, like Vaulters upon tundra.

Briefly: I think Kapaku are supposed to put some workers in Food, all game long. Many of your +food techs pay +k food/pop.

Era I: Put some workers in Food?
Cultivation/Husbandry Center (+5 Food/pop) is a possible gambit.

Era II: You may need 1 +food tech, probably Public Granary.
Era III: Plow Factory solves all of your food woes.

Beware, Plow Factory is so good that all other human players will take it, too, so this only keeps pace, and you'll still be behind them in food. The stock AI overlooks it, so you can probably overtake AIs on food soon after you enter Era III.

Era IV: Anaerobic Mycrobiology/Wyrm Farm. It's almost identical in effect to Public Granary, but at far higher cost, so get Public Granary first if you're going for this path.

With the full stack of Husbandry Center (+5 food/pop), Public Granary (+2 food/pop), and Wyrm Farm (+2 food/pop), your Husbandry Center city (usually your capital) earns 13 food/pop, plus any hero and accessory bonus. Other cities can get up to 8 food/pop. That's surely worth leaving 1-2 workers in food permanently.

~~~~~~~~

I start a new Kapaku game (for the 1st time ever). I reroll the start 4 times until I get a region that can fit a 2x12 stick city. (If your turn-100 stick doesn't fit on turn 1, reroll.) I luck out, and it's also a Pacify/Gather game (which is the 2nd-easiest combination, behind only Pacify/Activate). I have only 2 anomalies, which gives only 1 possible hex to colonize, and it's a monstrous 44(!)-pt tile, with 9 Food and +10 Approval, and eventually 3 river tiles and access to the sea. OK, maybe this is an above-average start :steamhappy:

On turn 1, I earn 7.2 food = +1 pop in 4 turns. That's fast enough. I plan to leave my first 1-2 pop in Industry, and build Founder's Memorial, Geomic Labs, Mill Factory, and Seed Storage. By then, I should have 3 pop, and I could leave 1 in Food. Thereafter, it should be like any other game start.

If I had only 2-4 Food, I might put the 1st worker into food. If you choose a tile with 2 Food 22 Industry, you can park 1 worker in Food forever, and it's approximately the same as a 6 Food 18 Industry start (for the first couple dozen turns).

~~~~~~~~

I expect that Kapaku's bigger challenge is that it can't expand easily, because most regions are non-volcanic, and thus have zero food for Kapaku. I guess Public Granary + Plow Factory is your lifeline.

Also build Winter Borough in every region, level them up to L2, and wait for winter. But every faction does that regardless, so again you must do it just to keep pace.


Question:
If i have a river in my Region.
I dont build my city on it.
If i then later on place a Golem Camp on that river.
Do i then get acces to build the river techs?
Gilmoy Nov 8, 2020 @ 1:46pm 
Yes, all tiles around your Golem Camp count as Exploitations, so they enable all techs that require "an exploited ($terrain) tile":

- Era I Aquapulvistics.Dust Dredger (with river)
- Era II Aquacultural Science.Irrigation Networks (with river)
- [edit] 2nd winter's Ice Works (with lake, sea, or river)

- Era II Management Sciences.Lumber Mill (with Forest)
Yes, you can have a Golem Camp partially or fully on non-volcanic terrain. It harvests whatever FIDS you actually see on the map. What you see is exactly what it'll get.

- Era III Magma Hydraulics.Lava Works (with lava flow)
- Era IV Anaerobic Mycrobiology.Wyrm Farm (with any volcanic terrain)
- [edit] Era V Volcanic Leecher (with any volcanic terrain)

You also get all hero skill, faction quest, and world event bonuses on anomalies and ruins adjacent to your Golem Camps.

~~~~~~~~

I'm not sure about Golem Camps vs. Era I-III Tempest ships, all of which require an exploited sea tile to create a sea anchor site. Other factions have set the precedent that non-city exploitations do not give you a Tempest sea anchor:

[0] Cultist assimilated minor faction villages (with sea tile)
[0] Mykara Fungal Blooms (with sea tile)
[_] Kapaku Golem Camp (with sea tile)

I've never built a Golem Camp adjacent to a sea tile, so I don't know which rule it follows. But I strongly suspect it does not.

~~~~~~~~

Golem Camps are not Districts:
- they don't level up
- they don't level up adjacent districts
- you can't build new districts adjacent to them (unless it's also adjacent to your city)
[_] you can't build a Guardian adjacent to them (unless it's also adjacent to your city)
Last edited by Gilmoy; Nov 10, 2020 @ 10:17am
Gilmoy Nov 8, 2020 @ 2:09pm 
[x] Golem Camp on a strategic or luxury resource creates a free extractor!

You automatically get the extractor on the same turn you finish building the Golem Camp or researching the extractor tech, whichever happens later. Golem Camp is just like a City Center/Borough Streets/legendary building in this regard. If you already have the extractor built, and you build a Golem Camp on top of it (which is legal), you don't get any extra benefit.

I learned this pleasant surprise by building on a Mithrite. That saved me 2 turns + 10 Titanium :steamhappy:

In mid-Era IV, that Mithrite/Camp site generates 25 Food, 22 Industry, 32 Science = 79 FIDS in summer. It does have 3 river tiles, so in winter it goes up to 53 Food, 80 Industry, 32 Science = 165 FIDS. It's so good, BL AI's raiders have destroyed it twice and I keep rebuilding it.
Originally posted by Gilmoy:
Yes, all tiles around your Golem Camp count as Exploitations, so they enable all techs that require "an exploited ($terrain) tile":

- Era I Aquapulvistics.Dust Dredger (with river)
- Era II Aquacultural Science.Irrigation Networks (with river)

- Era II Management Sciences.Lumber Mill (with Forest)
Yes, you can have a Golem Camp partially or fully on non-volcanic terrain. It harvests whatever FIDS you actually see on the map. What you see is exactly what it'll get.

- Era III Magma Hydraulics.Lava Works (with lava flow)
- Era IV Anaerobic Mycrobiology.Wyrm Farm (with any volcanic terrain)

You also get all hero skill, faction quest, and world event bonuses on anomalies and ruins adjacent to your Golem Camps.

I don't include 2nd winter's Ice Works here, because it has no build requirement: you can always build it in any region, even without rivers. You just won't get any benefit, so it's a waste of effort.

~~~~~~~~

I'm not sure about Golem Camps vs. Era I-III Tempest ships, all of which require an exploited sea tile to create a sea anchor site. Other factions have set the precedent that non-city exploitations do not give you a Tempest sea anchor:

[0] Cultist assimilated minor faction villages (with sea tile)
[0] Mykara Fungal Blooms (with sea tile)
[_] Kapaku Golem Camp (with sea tile)

I've never built a Golem Camp adjacent to a sea tile, so I don't know which rule it follows. But I strongly suspect it does not.

~~~~~~~~

Golem Camps are not Districts:
- they don't level up
- they don't level up adjacent districts
- you can't build new districts adjacent to them (unless it's also adjacent to your city)
[_] you can't build a Guardian adjacent to them (unless it's also adjacent to your city)


Thank you
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Date Posted: Oct 23, 2020 @ 10:52am
Posts: 20