What do you guys think is the strongest faction and why?

[ddpaule]

I think it is the Roving clans because:
1. Fast Units at the start allowing to search more ruins.
2. Use of stockpiles from the start( science giving 100 pts is alot not even 2 cities can produce that much in turn 20 added that you also don't need to reasearch era 2 tech to push for era 3 where stockpile is upgraded to 500 pts and era 4 where it can shoot 1k+)
3. Capability to stop everyone on using stockpiles ( what I said above makes this relevant)
4. Mercenary health bonus of x2 because of boarding vessel bonus damage based on hp.
5. Roving clans Heroes are the highest dust givers given also they are played with roving clans quest that gives even more trade routes winning economic victory is cake even with just 4 regions colonized.

[Eerywax]

Returning to the original question/title for a second, at least for military power. This might not work in MP or versus experienced players, I really don't know. But as Wild Walkers I find an army comp of archers heavily indexed into damage and initiative can ravage any fight. This is from a game on Hard with that community patch active.

My army composition was 2 centaurs (Bos) and the rest filled with archers (eventually 6). With a hero that gives +1 range you devastate enemy numbers and the reinforcements cannot outpace the damage output (i.e. you chunk out the army that prompted the attack and then you're camping the reinforcement tiles). Centaurs were there as blockers, because they have decent initiative and the Free Counter ability means you can send one in to intercept an enemy unit and still have another counterattack.

With 2 armies like this I sieged a late-game cultist city and sat through the 10 or so combats it took for literally dozens of its units to walk into the grinder, and one Centaur got low (had regen dust trinkets on them). Admittedly the cultists have a lot of no-resource units but their Nameless and Fanatics were packing good defenses, to no avail.

I felt that was pretty potent. Necrophages were a tad trickier because of Foragers (Necrodrones drop even faster because bows have the anti-flying thing). Never had to fight a super high-defense faction like the Drakken since we were allied but if I'm looking at similarly equipped units in my Broken Lords game those archers could wipe them up.

[ElPrezCBF]

Originally posted by ddpaule:

Originally posted by twel70:

I was referring to anomaly tiles but tbh it's been quite some time since I last played this game and I can't quite remember if it was a district or anomaly tile that produced influence. In any case, anomalies indirectly help with influence because the more there are in your city area, the more you're able to focus on influence production without significant FIDS trade off.

Don't know when the wiki was updated or whether rare anomaly tiles with influence were added later on. But don't quote me on this. If someone else has seen such an anomaly, I'd be interested to confirm it wasn't my imagination or inaccurate memory.

ah yes districts never anomalies what some rare anomalies give is happyness :3
I'd trade 1 anomaly that gives happyness vs 3 or even 6 that has no happyness much so early game because for reals early game is about getting to fervent empire aproval first while expanding fast.

Well, it's great of course to get approval anomalies but bear in mind it's a one-off bonus. It won't scale to offset the expansion approval penalty that increases with each new colony you settle. So in that sense, I don't see them as any different from other anomalies. Access to luxury resources is more valuable in this regard as they are recurring (albeit over time) and stack.

[ddpaule]

yes of course eventually +10 to aproval gets outpowered by expansion disaproval but early on its quickest way to get to fervent. fervent aproval if you look at empire gives 15% I think to science and dust.
Talking about boosters it is far more easier to get them by sea I ignore building them if I'm not playing rc(rc can just seteke to the resource and auto build it that way) because it's wastefull because fortresses in whatever game speed brings in a solid 1 towards whatever resources.

[ddpaule]

Originally posted by Zinovy:

Returning to the original question/title for a second, at least for military power. This might not work in MP or versus experienced players, I really don't know. But as Wild Walkers I find an army comp of archers heavily indexed into damage and initiative can ravage any fight. This is from a game on Hard with that community patch active.

My army composition was 2 centaurs (Bos) and the rest filled with archers (eventually 6). With a hero that gives +1 range you devastate enemy numbers and the reinforcements cannot outpace the damage output (i.e. you chunk out the army that prompted the attack and then you're camping the reinforcement tiles). Centaurs were there as blockers, because they have decent initiative and the Free Counter ability means you can send one in to intercept an enemy unit and still have another counterattack.

With 2 armies like this I sieged a late-game cultist city and sat through the 10 or so combats it took for literally dozens of its units to walk into the grinder, and one Centaur got low (had regen dust trinkets on them). Admittedly the cultists have a lot of no-resource units but their Nameless and Fanatics were packing good defenses, to no avail.

I felt that was pretty potent. Necrophages were a tad trickier because of Foragers (Necrodrones drop even faster because bows have the anti-flying thing). Never had to fight a super high-defense faction like the Drakken since we were allied but if I'm looking at similarly equipped units in my Broken Lords game those archers could wipe them up.

you are damn right about archers and even the wilkwakers heroes because of forest rage skill.
I think they have the most potent damage in game.
who knows maybe I'm wrong and vaulters have better..

[Khardinal]

This is a dificult topic.
Because a lot of it all depends on your starting location, the rewards you find.
(Like if you find that Broken Lords Quest Hero from the Winter ruins, you won the game)
The Heroes available on the market.

This list is not mathematic calculated, just my personal experience on Endless Difficulty.
Keep in mind that all factions are well balanced, none of them are bad.

======================================
TOP TIER:
======================================
1) Broken Lords
If they start on desert they can snowball out of controll so fast.
Beefy units, can research more techs since you skip all the food ones.

2) Necrophages
Some what slow start, but as soon they get their zombie army going free of maintenance.
An army 30 units large is possible.

3) Roving Clans
Very Mobile units, early access to the market. Stronger Mercenary Units.
Mercenaries are nice at sea, no need to reseach ships, can deliver them straight in fortress.

4) Allayi
Very Mobile units.
Now if you want to play with one city, forget the Cultists, this is the faction you want.
Sky Fin can harvest your needed Strategics and Luxuries from the first turn.
Boosters last longer. Start with the most Mobile Hero ingame.


======================================
MID TIER:
======================================
1) Wild Walkers
Pretty straight forward faction, long rage units.
Focusses on hard building everything, not much to say

2) Drakken
Gets Empire Plans a turn early, a nice head start for whatever your plans are.
Starting Hero is probably the best General ingame. Health for days.
Forcing diplomatic stances.

3) Forgotten
Fun to sneak around, pillage your wanted resources. Annoy enemy cities.
Getting the technologies you want can be a hassle.


======================================
BOTTOM TIER:
======================================
1) Vaulters / Mezari
They were strong when Techno Lover still gave a 100% boost to their gear.
But now I just can't seem to find myself enjoying playing this faction.
Starting Hero isn't the best General or Governer. Clunky quest line.

2) Ardent Mages
Their Pillars and Spells take up a lot of your research slots.
Glass cannon units will give you a rough start
Quest Line forces you to expand into 2-4 extra cities early, depending how you time it.
They really shine in the late game after you completed their quest line though.
Probably the best "End Game" faction, but getting there is full of bumps in the road.

3) Cultists
They get a very strong start. Beefy Faction units with Faction Quest upgrades.
Destroying cities is a lot more fun than dealing with captured ones.
BUT !!!
During mid to late game, your enemies will start to destroy all your converted camps.
(Very fun faction never the less, especially on lower difficulties)

4) Morgawr
They should have the strongest Naval Units...
But the Artillery Ship dominates and is available to all Factions.
Slow to find ruins at the start with a movement penalty on land.
Sea Ruins end your turn.
Needs a water map.
Very weak against early agression.
Not really fond of them.

======================================
UNDECIDED TIER:
======================================

1) Kapaku
I read comments saying they are over powered at this moment.
Can't figure out if volcano forging is a strength or a weakness. Maybe offensive?
- Can build large armies since their Infantry is maintenance free.
- Can build level 10 units during the End Game becaue of a +100XP Quest building

They can go wide if you can put one of their heroes as Governer for approval.
But for this you will need many of their Heroes and a lot of Resources to terra form.

They can go tall because every volcanic hex provides food.
Volcanic Leechers give +4 Strategic Resource (Insanly good)

Personal taste that disappointed me a bit.
Wish Volcanoforging could allow for more Lava Flows.
Added a bit more Black and Orange to the colour scheme.
Now terraforming just turns the land into boring gray :(

I will have to play a bit more with them, only had two games so far.
Which ended in a Dust Victory, guess they are good at Dust too haha !
20k Dust per turn on normal speed at around Turn 150

PS:
Sorry for writing a list and not following the question.
There just isn't really a "best" for me. :)

[ddpaule]

:) I always play on endless or long game and I usually get 20k per turn before 90 turns.. maybe even 60 turns..
I said this a number of times but the roving clans heroes (you don't have to play them to get them have absurd effects on trade routes) are best dust givers added that the dust is based on trade route all that matters is you get a sizable empire better yet capture an enemies capital and also upgrade its routes the extra cities are just there to provide routes to increase dust.
I reckon the game says 1k dust on routes but if you put it in calculator it's not right(add all city dust and route dust) possibly because it doesn't calculate multiple roving clan hero bonuses on trade routes.

[Grimpavidus]

Originally posted by Khardinal:

thats some interesting points but i would say Kapaku are god tier because they get everything out of lava fields in comparison to other factions.

i would say Allayi are bottom tier, sure their monks are one of the finest units but they are screwed without acces to enough pearls and forgotten units in itself are one of the weakest oeverall so they are bottom tier too. Thats just my 2 cents. Where are the Morgawr in your list?

[Nefrogitis]

All factions have their strengths and weaknesses, but a few can hold their own without having to assimilate minor factions to bolster their already strong armies, and I personally consider those factions as OP, because no matter what, they can carve a path to most victory conditions.

The Kapaku can hold their own, as well as the Drakken, the Necrophages, the Broken Lords, the Wild Walkers, and the Vaulters. Their units are very strong, and with the proper equipment, they can decimate the other factions very easily.

The weakest factions are the Forgotten, the Cultists, and the Morgawr, because their units are just weak when pittied against the former factions, even when they are upgraded with latest latest armor.

I consider the Allayi, the Ardent Mages, and the Roving Clans to be somewhere in the middle, because while their units aren't as strong as the factions that sit at the top, they can get there with the right tools in the case of the Allayi, and with proper equipment for the other two.

I know there are various victory conditions in this game, but let's face it: if your military isn't in good shape, you are probably going to lose sooner or later, unless the map settings are in your favor, and you were spawned on an isolated island where no one was going to knock on your doors for most of the duration of the game.

[ElPrezCBF]

Human factions generally have lower health than non-human ones, so comparing them in combat against Drakken or Necros is like comparing apples and pears. Such factions would do better with a strategy of assimilating strong minor faction units to bolster their ranks like Kasanji, Haunts or Delvers. Area attack units are formidable and can help level the playing field against non-human factions.

[Khardinal]

@The Shy Guy

Added them to the list now.
I like Morgawr the least. Played them a few times, but never really fetl the vibe.
If you get early land based agression you are pretty much screwed.
Needs a water map, don't really like water maps to start with :P

[ddpaule]

the morgwar bomb I mean hero thing makes things blow up is quiet strong.. I remember having a game against morgwar and he used it on me.

[ddpaule]

Originally posted by Nefrogitis:

All factions have their strengths and weaknesses, but a few can hold their own without having to assimilate minor factions to bolster their already strong armies, and I personally consider those factions as OP, because no matter what, they can carve a path to most victory conditions.

The Kapaku can hold their own, as well as the Drakken, the Necrophages, the Broken Lords, the Wild Walkers, and the Vaulters. Their units are very strong, and with the proper equipment, they can decimate the other factions very easily.

The weakest factions are the Forgotten, the Cultists, and the Morgawr, because their units are just weak when pittied against the former factions, even when they are upgraded with latest latest armor.

I consider the Allayi, the Ardent Mages, and the Roving Clans to be somewhere in the middle, because while their units aren't as strong as the factions that sit at the top, they can get there with the right tools in the case of the Allayi, and with proper equipment for the other two.

I know there are various victory conditions in this game, but let's face it: if your military isn't in good shape, you are probably going to lose sooner or later, unless the map settings are in your favor, and you were spawned on an isolated island where no one was going to knock on your doors for most of the duration of the game.

I can see the reason about units but I'm doubtful that it matters. Imo economic prowes is more of what wins overall wars because it won't matter if you lose your army over and over again if you can continue until the other can't is what matters.
Quiet doubtful also that you'd have a bad army if your economy is strong because you can buy mercs or buyout an army with dust and build one in matters of 1 turn if you trully have huge amount of dust.
A forgotten who doesn't reduce enemy morale (spying effect)?
I do agree that they are hardest faction because of to much strain on dust. what I mean is that instead of getting to buy a hero early on or a stockpile early on I have to buy tech. Instead of getting to spy early on because of lower influence cost I have to keep my workers on dust or I be behind the techtree added I had the hero in the first place to spy.. well the quest does give free heroes but meh is to late.. takes to long..

Forgotten free hero the one with piercing bonus is quiet powerful.

Imo units die(waste of investment) but heroes don't and if they do they can be revived in a snap and they can be leveled ultra fast by buying out buildings where they are governor making them ultra soldiers a lvl 30 broken lords hero has so much defense I don't think that it can die.. a lvl 30 wildwakers hero sitting on forest tile with a decent quest bow will deal 1400+ damage or more killing even guardians instantly ... The forgotten hero one with piercing bonus will deal similar damage in any tile..

The cultist imo has one of the most powerful quest item if I remember its 30% unit damage and a ton crap of other stuff?
but eitherway they have no need to produce their own they convert.. dreder the spider ones are bad news for any melee based factions like broken lords or necrophage or maybe all your top tier..
This is because the spiders can form a wall and their skill cocoon heals imensely but the healed unit is unable to attack or retaliate if attacked but there is one more thing about it it increases def immensely and btw being range and somewhat a mechanic in game allows driders to attack without taking any retaliation even in melee.
I suppose as a faction about zerging and eternal end the cultist are actually pretty fabulous
I only played em in huge maps but I kinda think the capability to assimilate a large number of villages and get their efffect without building any settlement is a plus rather than a minus.
Influence is never dictated by the tiles rather just district and the extra district level is quiet good.
Eitherway the factions main goal is war too like necrophages. Maybe an alliance with someone and war for even more influence.

[Nefrogitis]

Any faction can focus on dust and buy units off the market, that's not something specific to any one faction. A Forgotten army with Silics or Urces in its ranks is formidable, but a Necrophages army without even having access to any unit(s) from the minor factions can stop them dead in their tracks.

Head on fights almost always favour the Necrophages when they are against the Forgotten, the Cultists, or the Morgawr, and there isn't much you can do about it.

[ddpaule]

Originally posted by Nefrogitis:

Any faction can focus on dust and buy units off the market, that's not something specific to any one faction. A Forgotten army with Silics or Urces in its ranks is formidable, but a Necrophages army without even having access to any unit(s) from the minor factions can stop them dead in their tracks.

Head on fights almost always favour the Necrophages when they are against the Forgotten, the Cultists, or the Morgawr, and there isn't much you can do about it.

War is not about destruction of enemy(ies) army it's about destruction of its capability to sustain an army/produce an army.
Sheer numbers can be used towards something else other than winning a fight I have destroyed cities by just obstructing its reinforcements I just souround his reinforcing army with my army over and over again (each turn an army even whatever size gets only 1 attack move) and all my battles were defeat against his main army but I destroyed his city 1 at a time with no power to sustain before you know it I'm buying his own foragers and necrodrones off the market.

[Nefrogitis]

That's strategy: you had to come up with a different plan because facing off was no option for you anymore. That's my point exactly.