Is Tempest really a different game? Discuss.

[nlaslett]

I've been trying to wrap my head around what I think about Tempest. I've enjoyed playing it but something seems...different. And I think it may be because, at its core, Tempest wants to be a different game. It's like a second game with different mechanisms and tactics is taking place just off-shore.

Some examples:
Endless Legend: A classic 4x game where you work to expand your city/empire to gradually conquer the world.
Tempest: A capture-the-flag style race to control the most fortresses.

Endless Legend: Resources are rare and require research, work, and time to harvest. More advanced tech and buildings help later in the game.
Tempest: Resources are plentiful and there for the taking, no research required.

Endless Legend: Summer & Winter seasons define the climate challenges.
Tempest: Multiple weather effects (rain, fog, lightning, seaweed) define the climate challenges.
(What, it never rains on land?)

Endless Legend: Global challenges are time-bound or encourage collective work to resolve.
Tempest: Global challenges (in the form of Facilities) are permanent and can only be removed/reversed for the player controlling the facility.

~~~~

This question is separate from (but related to) Balkoth's thread about Tempest taking too much away from land. Some of the worst balance issues were addressed in the last patch, so I don't want to get into a flame war over specific balance issues or playstyles. Putting balance aside, is this even still the same game?

I'm not bashing Amplitude or Tempest; they do great work, including Tempest. But I'm starting to think that I may want to disable Tempest if I'm playing anything but the Morgawr.

[Xtiaan]

I couldn't really get into the game until Tempest came out. Loved Endless Space but couldn't get into Endless Legend even though I thought everything about the game design was amazing. I like playing as the Vaulters... They remind me of what the human race should be like at their best...They are Tech but they are spiritual too. I just love playing with them. Not even trying to win. Just defending myself, making friends with other factions, trying to survive and wiping out evil. I get lost in it... The big plus with Tempest is the 'Two Continent' option in which you have to travel to a 'New World' to discover all the resources that you need. It really is fascinating. The parallels with real history...The idea that there might be resources in Space that we don't have here on Earth. I just find it fascinating. Thank You Amplitude. I feel BLESSED to have this game and faction to play... I'll find it hard to play Endless Space 2 without them. I've fallen in love with them.

[Thulsa ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Doom]

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

They remind me of what the human race should be like at their best...They are Tech but they are spiritual too.

"False.
The perfect human is remorseless, without pity, and half cyborg." - Dwight Schrute

[Wendek]

I think you forgot one thing about Tempest and it's one of the worst points for me :
Endless Legend : every unit is different and there are lots of possible options for gear
Tempest : Everyone (ok, not Morgawr) has literally the same units with very few possible options (such as not having tiers, or any kind of Dust gear)

On land, the AI has a ton of units but you can compete by having better ones and making good use of a Hero. On the sea, the AI has stacks of 6 or 8 fire ships by the time you can start to build a navy (unless you're Morgawr) and there's absolutely no tactics in naval battles most of the time so there's not much you can do about that until later, when you get your own stacks (which will be lower level due to not having slaughtered dozens of Fomorians)

I've realized that when I play with Tempest I basically have to ignore the sea for most of the time anyway because of that... so I'm basically not using the content except for the "there are less ressources on land" part. So I've come to the same conclusion as you OP : I'm likely going to re-disable it again, think I'll just play a few more games to get the "Control every facility once" achievement and that'll be it, I'll just re-enable it whenever I feel like playing as the Morgawr.

[Xtiaan]

Originally posted by Thulsa ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Doom:

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

They remind me of what the human race should be like at their best...They are Tech but they are spiritual too.

"False.
The perfect human is remorseless, without pity, and half cyborg." - Dwight Schrute

I guess we have a fundamentally different outlook on humanity! To each his own....I guess

[Balkoth]

I agree with nlaslett and wendek.

[Xtiaan]

You guys are idiots... Tempest isn't worth playing unless you play with the 'two continent' option. Then it's the best version of the game ever. You can't even get to the high tier resources until you battle across the sea. Too much challenge for you guys? You are all a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[starrynite120]

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

You guys are idiots... Tempest isn't worth playing unless you play with the 'two continent' option. Then it's the best version of the game ever. You can't even get to the high tier resources until you battle across the sea. Too much challenge for you guys? You are all a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I agree with your point. The aggression is uncalled for though.

[Balkoth]

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

You guys are idiots... Tempest isn't worth playing unless you play with the 'two continent' option. Then it's the best version of the game ever. You can't even get to the high tier resources until you battle across the sea. Too much challenge for you guys? You are all a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Does that appply to Two Continents without Tempest? In other words, if I made a video of two continents, what would you think?

[nlaslett]

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

You guys are idiots... Tempest isn't worth playing unless you play with the 'two continent' option. Then it's the best version of the game ever. You can't even get to the high tier resources until you battle across the sea. Too much challenge for you guys? You are all a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Woah dude...I think I liked you better when you were making friends and wiping out evil. :-)

I'm just trying to figure out what I think about Tempest. Your way sounds promising. Glad you found a style that works for you. No nead to get angry. Nobody said it was a bad idea. Just that playing a typical land game doesn't seem to fit well with all the Tempest changes.

wednek: Dead-on about everybody getting the same units and the AI having the (boring) edge.

[Xtiaan]

Originally posted by nlaslett:

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

You guys are idiots... Tempest isn't worth playing unless you play with the 'two continent' option. Then it's the best version of the game ever. You can't even get to the high tier resources until you battle across the sea. Too much challenge for you guys? You are all a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Woah dude...I think I liked you better when you were making friends and wiping out evil. :-)

I'm just trying to figure out what I think about Tempest. Your way sounds promising. Glad you found a style that works for you. No nead to get angry. Nobody said it was a bad idea. Just that playing a typical land game doesn't seem to fit well with all the Tempest changes.

wednek: Dead-on about everybody getting the same units and the AI having the (boring) edge.

Just try it with the two continent option. It's the only way to play Tempest that makes it fun. I'm not a multi-player gamer... Although I may try that with Endless Space 2. I don't like seeing over-zealous criticism of this particular developer as I think they are making the best turn based games on the market. Tempest was a gift to you guys. It popped up as an add-on for me for free which is why I tried it. Playing with the two continents and most great resources on the second continent allows you to play an age of discovery type game in a fantasy setting. Never seen it done before so I think it's brilliant.

I find it challenging and interesting. I'm more of an Endless Space guy but I don't and will never understand how people can get into factions that are evil. I just don't get it as a person. So on some level I don't get some of you guys. I realize it's just fantasy. But some of the factions in this game a just disgusting and playing them in my opinion is disgusting. Much better fighting and slaughtering them. The real world is evil enough for me. When I'm in game, the good guys have to win. Got nothing else to say in this thread about it. Sorry, if I offended your evil asses. Good luck dooming Augura to slavery and death.

[Balkoth]

Hey, I mostly play Mezari! Pretty sure they aren't evil.

Also, what do you think about my statement above of playing two continents WITHOUT Tempest?

[Grotzel]

Evil is subjective. For example: you are clearly the slave of your emotions. Emotions are completely unnecessary anyway. Contact your local Cyber Controller to find out how you can upgrade yourself by deleting them. Delete! Delete!

[nlaslett]

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

Just try it with the two continent option.

I will.

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

I'm not a multi-player gamer.

Neither am I. I play on my own terms, at odd hours, to escape other people. :-)

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

I don't like seeing over-zealous criticism of this particular developer as I think they are making the best turn based games on the market.

I agree about Amplitude. I don't think anybody here was being over-zealous, although I do think there are some valid criticisms (or at least things players should be aware of).

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

It popped up as an add-on for me for free which is why I tried it.

Wait...what? How did you score Tempest for free? You're not talking about the free "Pacts of the Sea" update that came out at the same time, are you? You have the Mawgwar as a playable main faction?

Originally posted by Xtiaan:

I don't and will never understand how people can get into factions that are evil.

I'm actually (mostly) with you on this one. Playing evil makes me feel dirty. I've won EL with every major faction except the Necros, who I just can't seem to get the hang of. But just cuz a faction has psycho artwork and a creepy backstory doesn't mean you have to play "evil". Unless you count invading and conquering your neighbors, in which case all 4x games are evil. :-)

[Trotwood]

Hey! The necrophage aren't evil! They're just...hungry. I suppose You'd let YOUR kids starve just so some industrial age elves can romp around making merry? ;-) pfft.

[Xtiaan]

Just a note on 'Deleting My Emotions' to Upgrade. If I did that, I couldn't make a living as I am a songwriter by trade. So think about whether humans and art in general (including videogames) is 'upgraded' without emotions.