pop loyalty pressure

[eastwind]

I have a question about pop loyalty pressure.

I conquered a city state (because it was suzerained by a civ I was at war with, and it was in an annoying position, and the other civ had sunk entirely too many envoys into it to be worth out-bidding him). But I wanted the bonuses from that city state eventually - after I wiped out the civ that had spent all their envoys on it.

So now that's done, I gifted the city to the furthest opponent away from it that I could - and one that had already had loyalty problems with one of its cities and lost it.

The question has to do with pop pressure. The nearest city of the now-owning civ is 47 hexes away (yes I counted, and it's a huge map, and I checked round the world in both directions, the other way is 48).

The fandom wiki says "The pressure from nearby citizens is a metric calculated for each individual city dependent upon its neighboring cities' populations of the same civilization compared against the neighboring cities' populations of foreign civilizations. Only civilizations' cities within 9 tiles of the city can impact the pressure from nearby citizens, and Free Cities and city-states have no impact."

Yet when I hover over the city to see its loyalty, it shows overall loyalty changing by -12.8 per turn (rebellion in 7 turns). Below that it shows:

Governor: 0
Happiness level: +3
Other effects: +1
Nearby Citizens: -16.8

and below that

Pressure from nearby citizens:
Korea: -23.9
America: +8.9

Total Pop pressure: -15

So, what's up with that? Where is the +8.9 coming from? And why, since -23.9+8.9 = -15, is the pressure from "Nearby Citizens" -16.8 instead of -15 as shown further below?

Was there a pop loyalty pressure rework and the wiki is out of date?

I have no mods that mess with this mechanic.

[Copernicus]

I guess to answer this question, we need to know who the new owner of the city is (I presume America?), how many citizens currently exist in the city, whether the owner is in a dark age or a golden age, whether Korea is in a dark age or a golden age, and whether there might be any other local loyalty effects currently underway. (Although it looks like the only effect at the moment would be a monument in the city.)

Myself, I'd just scrub the excess envoys out of the city-state by using the "Fabricate Scandal" spy ability. It's a lot easier than trying to mess around with ownership issues.

[eastwind]

New owner is Abraham Lincoln. But I had previously tried giving it to Pericles and had the same thing, about 8 pop pressure from him, even though he's across the ocean too. Didn't count the hexes in that case, but more than 9, about 30-40 at least.

[Copernicus]

Originally posted by eastwind:

New owner is Abraham Lincoln. But I had previously tried giving it to Pericles and had the same thing, about 8 pop pressure from him, even though he's across the ocean too. Didn't count the hexes in that case, but more than 9, about 30-40 at least.

Ah! But you have to remember, Lincoln does have a city within range -- range 0, in fact. :)

Every city's citizens provide loyalty pressure to their own city. How much population does the city have? Is Lincoln in a normal age, or a dark/golden age (affecting the loyalty strength of the citizens)? That'll create the core loyalty score for the city that opponents need to overcome.

[plaguepenguin]

The city has positive loyalty pressure towards America because of its own population. America's nearest other city could be 47 tiles away, but this city is right there zero tiles away from itself, so it gets full pressure from its own pop towards its current owner, America.

Update: I see that Copernicus got there two minutes before me. Teach me to be so wordy all the time.

[Copernicus]

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

Update: I see that Copernicus got there two minutes before me. Teach me to be so wordy all the time.

Nonsense. :) We all just provide appetizers on these threads, and wait for plaguepenguin to produce the definitive thesis on each subject. :)