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This can't start until you actually meet your neighbors. Once you've met, tourism can begin.
While you can theoretically win just by having enormous amounts of great works and wonders, you'll usually need to do more than just that to overwhelm other players. You can increase the rate of tourism by establishing open borders with other players, having active trade routes with them, using a variety of different civics, and at the end of the game by using Rock Bands to generate instant hits of tourism.
It's a slow process, because every turn that you generate more tourism, your opponents generate more culture. You've gotta maintain a high rate of tourism for quite a while to win.
I see, i think ill try again then.
Also like a secondary question is there a way to generate faith without having to go for religion?
I had unlocked rockbands but i am pretty much unable to recruit them because i had like 2 faith increase per round.
I dont think i need a religion for this, so is there some other passive way for generating that?
Also its good to know i need open botders for it to spread better, it makes sense but i had no idea
You don't need a religion but you do want holy sites. There are other ways to generate faith but they aren't always reliable and/or won't generate enough to focus on rock bands or national parks later in the game. Not creating your own religion also means you don't have to spend faith to spread and defend it.
Aside from them, if your map happens to have religious city-states, natural wonders that create faith yields on workable tiles, or city states whose suzerain bonuses let you build unique tile improvements that have faith yield, then you can exploit those as well. Preserves tend to have their greatest value if you build them overlapping and near enough to a natural wonder with workable tiles, because natural wonders increase tile appeal.
The huge advantage of building holy sites just for late game faith points to feed your rock band and naturalist purchases (national parks being huge tourism draws), is that there is less pressure to build them early. You aren't under the gun to get them in the early game so that you can accumulate enough great prophet points quickly enough to beat the competition for the limited number of religions. You can put off building them until later, when there aren't so many other priorities dictating that you build other districts early.
That said, it can be a useful strategy to go for a religion as an assist to an eventual culture win, and not just to get a religious victory. You're going to build holy sites eventually anyway for the naturalists and rock bands, so why not enhance the value of that sunk cost by building enough of them early, and doing the holy site prayers, etc. to get your own religion, for which you can choose beliefs that help with a culture victory. You can major in culture and minor in religion, as it were.
A counterpoint to this: I've found in my own games that when I go for a religion, I end up spending so much faith working to defend my religion from being overrun by others, I use up much of the faith bonus I can generate from the religion itself. The effort to invest money and time into putting together lots of religious districts and structures (and the governor, if you're gonna use him) also detracts from other endeavors.
In my recent games, if I'm planning on concentrating on culture, I don't bother even trying for a religion. I haven't yet reached the point where I actually turn down great prophets, but if I get one I'll usually just give up on the culture victory...
But, there is a counter to that downside of getting a religion early, that you have to defend it. You can get the great prophet and hold onto it until later in the game, then pop it and get your religion only after you have had the chance to get many holy sites and build up a lot of stored faith points. When you do pop your prophet, every city of yours with a holy site is instantly converted to your religion, so all that effort by other civs to convert your cities goes right down the drain. At that point you have accumulated enough faith points from these holy sites that you can get some apostles to enhance your religion and start an inquisition if you need to mop up, and/or deal cheaply with any further religious aggression from other civs.
Of course, the later you pop your prophet, the more of the desirable beliefs will be gone. Well, the higher the difficulty level, the more likely that really juicy all-purpose ones like Feed the World will be gone no matter how early you get your religion. So, you have a trade-off to make if you are accumulating any prophet points in the early game, between getting the prophet and popping him as soon as possible, or only getting the prophet later, then popping him even later than that. Rush it and you might get juicy beliefs and have them working for you sooner, but, you have to prioritize getting the prophet early when you have all sorts of other priorities in the early game, and then you have to spend faith defending your religion. Don't rush, don't prioritize, and at least you don't shortchange other priorities, but you have to take sloppy seconds on beliefs, and you increase the risk of not getting any religion. But, if you've already lost the race for the juicy beliefs, you can then just hold onto your prophet and pop him following the strategy described above, saving yourself the need to defend your religion until you've had a chance to build holy sites to the point that it's going to be cheap and easy to defend your religion. Even Jesuit Education might still be available, and at least some beliefs that increase your faith output, or output in some other yield you need help with, are bound to still be available
To guide you in making these trade-off decisions, you carefully monitor the great person screen to see how close the competition is in your game for prophets, and the religion screen to see what beliefs have already been scooped up. It will look starkly better or worse for getting any religion at all , rushing it, or for getting a prophet a bit later and holding onto him, all depending on the particular game you are in. Majoring in culture and minoring in religion can definitely be made to work, you just have to be attentive to even more aspects of the game if you want to make the right trade-offs
I'll be honest and say I don't understand either of these points at all.
With a little thought it usually ends up being super efficient protecting your own religion within your borders. If I'm getting a religion and I'm next to a pushy religious neighbor, I end up being thankful because it means I can spread my religion throughout the core of my empire and beyond with a single Apostle, as long as they give me easy targets by trying to missionary spam. Even when that doesn't happen burning all but one Apostle charge then fighting with him is a great way to leverage costs, even if they're not a Debater.
As for Religion and Culture, they feed into each other really well, so well that I'd say Religion is almost essential for a quicker and smoother Culture Win. For a while during the life of this game, it was possible to win or nearly win a pre-Enlightenment Culture victory if you got a few lucky breaks when it came to city states and relics.
Boy is that stressing, trying to get all the wonders before someone else does.
I still had no shrine side so my faith buildup was rather low, but i could still manage 3 rockbands by the time i unlocked then, more like 2 i guess, one instantly died.
It is still very confusing to me, the numbers just dont make any sense to me, it feels more like a guessing game at some point.
I only managed to get the required number because i got lucky with the rockbands performance, but is there a way to increase my tourism without invading other players?
It felt like my music, art etc. didnt do anything at some point, the further away someone was the less they would come for tourism, accoring to the numbers.
What i mean, can i somehow more passively get tourists to come over or do i have to invade them with rockbands?
Also what decides the amount of tourists a country actually has?
The numbers kept increasing and therefore my win condition as well, does that happen automatically the more culture there is in the world or is it decided by how much culture each player has?
The highest numbers were from the people who had somewhat competed on this field, so i just assumed as much.
Hmm, could be that I'm just used to playing on the higher difficulty levels, I suppose. Religion advances very, very quickly at Deity level, and unless I concentrate absolutely everything I've got on advancing my religion, I'm not going to have even a single apostle when the flocks of neighboring missionaries come calling. By the time I do get the appropriate civics and have sufficient faith, I'm often already swimming in foreign religious units. It is really disheartening to have your native religion destroyed before you can get it off the ground, and it has happened to me too many times now to take religion lightly. :(
Great!
Yeah, that's the thing: when you're first starting out, you've gotta get a feel for how much you can do with wonders, how much you can do with great works, and how much you're going to have to come up with using other techniques when your opponents grab those items before you do.
But there are lots and lots of ways to deal with the situation when your opponents build these items before you do. Conquer their wonders with your armies; steal their great works with your spies; go for alternate forms of culture that they can't get before you (archaeologists and national parks are good for this).
I think the best way to get a handle for what is going on is to study the Culture Victory report closely. It provides a table showing how many tourists you are attracting from each player, how many tourists the other players are attracting from you, and the current Culture target score you have to beat with your tourists to win the game. Seeing how these numbers ebb and flow helps to understand how your policies and their policies are affecting the situation.
Most of your tourism will have to be done "passively". In fact, there are so many different factors (and most of them are passive in nature) that it is practically impossible to list them all. You'll want to closely examine your governmental policy options (and max out the number of diplomatic / wildcard slots to help this) in order to perfect the quantity and quality of your tourism pressure. And yeah, try to optimize your wonders & great works, particularly with themed galleries and policies that improve the strength of great works.
In short, it takes a long time to discover all the possible ways of improving tourism, and it is probably impossible to use them all in a single game.
The number of "tourists" shown in the Culture Victory table is the cumulative result of all your years of Tourism: how long you've been in contact with the player, how much tourism you've been pushing, how well you've greased the wheels with open borders and trade routes will all have an effect on that value from each opponent. (And how large their own score of tourists from your civilization will be calculated in the same manner). However, the score you have to beat is based instead on Culture; you have to attract tourists greater than the largest Culture score among all your opponents. This means that if nobody else in the world is concentrating on culture, you'll be able to walk away with an easy win. But if someone else has an enormous amount of great works and wonders, your job will be cut out for you; you may need to switch to a different victory condition...
*shrug* I play on Emperor or Deity myself. I get it the race can be tough, but I've noticed it's about even odds that sometimes the AI just decides to be chill about Religion. Even when they're zealous, there's a very definite path you can take to keep close enough that you'll be able to defend and then thrive in the admittedly tough early stages.
:) The last few weeks or so, in every game I've been killed either with an early-game rush, an overload of barbarians, or (if I do decide to actually construct adequate defenses at the start) I get caught up trying to advance a particular strategy and forget to properly maintain my defenses, and my neighbors inevitably notice my weakness and declare a surprise war.
Deity can be really hard. If i'm not going for a religious win, I just don't even want to bother with it; there are too many other balls I'm trying to keep in the air. :)
I will keep trying, but i do feel pretty worn out after this one xD
Watching the victory screen helped, at first i didnt understand what it was shown me specifically but at some point i understood the thing about tourists staying home and tourist that visit me, hence win condition
It will probably get better the more i go this route, i will try again with another leader maybe, still have religion to do as well, even if that one seems the most boring to me.
One more question tho, towards the end game i kept recruiting great people, but i didnt have space to put their works in. Should i still draw them whenever i can or maybe sell some from my stash and replace them with new ones?
And with conquering their wonders, you mean take over their citys with the wonders in it, right? Or are there other ways?
Also thanks for the help so far, i think trying that blindly would be a lot more painful.
Yes, with a bit of practice Rock Bands are almost entirely optional. Culture Victories take practice, because as you noticed they're pretty passive and hard to judge how things are going.
The basic breakdown is like this-
Culture- your culture income ends up being your 'defense'; it's like gravity, it keeps your people at home instead of visiting other civs. Generating a lot of culture makes it harder for an AI to catch up and defeat you.
Tourism- this derives from a lot of the things that give you Culture, but not always. This is your offensive stat, in that it's what attracts people from other civs to visit you. You want to look for ways to boost the tourism you generate versus all civs, but really the most important is to beat the leader (or whoever is in second place after you if you lead).
So you have a handle on the basics of setting up your Empire. You don't really need to build a ton of Wonders, but they do help. Setting up museums and learning how to Theme them is generally more potent than Wonder building, and Trade Routes end up being the most potent tool at your disposal.
In the default display for World Rankings, if you go to the Culture Victory tab and mouse over the center column, the tourism number, you'll see the most important tooltip at your disposal. Your job is to remove as many penalties and improve as many bonuses as possible in that tooltip, because those % boosts are far more important than any single source of Tourism. Most of the time you won't be concerned with Religious Tourism (tourism from Relics) but it is possible to get a lot of help from those if you go for a specific plan. I'd consider that the Advanced Strategy so don't sweat it for most games.
1) Meet everyone and get them to open their borders to you. This is counter intuitive, but you don't need to open your borders to them. In fact if you don't it ends up being a nice source of Cultural protection if you do it this way since your competition ends up with no bonus.
2) Establish at least one trade route with every other civ, or at minimum your 3 closest cultural competitors. Small fry civs without many civs and much culture won't help you much, but trading with your competition ends up being a big boost. It becomes a super boost if you very carefully watch for the two Great Merchants that each boost this by 25%, and later slot the policy that grants another 50%. Getting all or most of these set up is probably the best way to make a Culture Victory easy on you and win without Rock Bands.
One other great thing to do is use your Faith to set up National Parks, instead of Rock Bands. It takes some practice getting used to setting them up, and making them better by boosting the Appeal as much as you can on those tiles, but it pays off. Not just in Tourism, but in granting the home city Amenities and a nice repeatable source of Era Score to keep the Golden Ages rolling.
There's a lot of other specifics and tips and tricks, but the ones I listed are probably the best and most core to understanding how to Culture Dominate in Civ VI.
Edit- I meant to say something about Great People and Works. Early game you don't need to be too concerned about missing out on them. However as you gain buildings with slots, you will want to look at your competitors and work on making deals to buy their great works. They will often undervalue them and if you have it and they don't that's a big swing in your favor. Mostly save your Great People for later, and buy Works as much as you can. Getting those Great People also works in your favor because they're not out there helping your competition. They also work well as immortal scouts if you don't mind micromanaging them. Don't sell off your own Works! Just let People sit idle or explore, until you can build more buildings with slots for their stuff.
Will definetly try that out on another run. The most noticable part for me which i did wrong was that i need them to open their borders, not me opening mine.
I did pretty much the opposite xD Inviting everyone in no matter what