Free City loyalty not falling?

[MeniliteZ]

In my current game, I have a Free City Nubia lost due to loyalty, surrounded by Spanish cities, yet its loyalty to Free Cities is rising.

What could cause this?

I've seen this before in other recent games, though the one time it was my own civ applying loyalty pressure, the cities wereflipping to me.

[grognardgary]

Dramatic ages does that you get a clump of free cities and they generate their own loyalty,

[plaguepenguin]

What's the name of this free city that Nubia lost to loyalty pressure from Spain, but once free, the city stopped losing loyalty?

I ask the name because if it's the name of a city-state, that explains this odd behavior. The city-state was conquered a while back by Nubia, then, as a Nubian city, lost loyalty to encroaching Spanish loyalty pressure, and flipped. However, because it started out as a city-state, it's not really a free city now, it's a city state that has been liberated. A city state is almost totally immune to loyalty pressure, and after liberation will have loyalty that will steadily rise towards 100 no matter what loyalty pressure Spain might be exerting on it.

If this is not a liberated city-state, I can't think of any other explanation. I think that grognardgary's conjecture is only supportable if this city is part of a clump of free cities, but you've told us it's surrounded by Spanish cities. Maybe if it's really low pop Spanish cities, and really high pop free cities not much further away than the "surrounding" Spanish cities, then that conjecture can be rescued.

[MeniliteZ]

It's Seville. I think its one Nubia conquered from Spain in a war before they made peace.

In an earlier game, Nubia settled too close to Zulu and lost the city to loyalty, but then the city stayed a free city.

Perhaps I need to reinstall Civ 6?

If I uninstall and reinstall, I wouldn't lose my saved games, right?

[Stormwinds]

Could you post a screenshot? A reinstall shouldn't be necessary.

[MeniliteZ]

Okay, here is one where Spain has almost got enough to start flipping it:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018091270

And here is one I took earlier where I think Valencia wasn't founded yet:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018092175

From the arrow in the second one, Bilbao is there, just not scouted yet.

[Copernicus]

Just a reminder to folks here, every city (not just city-states) generates its own internal loyalty. This comes from the local citizens, from a governor, from amenities, and from various other features (such as a monument).

Therefore, every city will increase loyalty to itself, unless nearby foreign cities are capable of overwhelming the local loyalty.

In both of the above screenshots, the free city of Seville has a decent-sized population compared to its neighbors. (In the second screenshot, you can see that the loyalty pressure from surrounding cities is just pitiful, from the quantity of the red triangles pointing towards it.) In both cases, if you want to convert the city via loyalty, you really want to overwhelm it with loyalty pressure (using things like bread & circuses or Amani's emissary ability to help push it over the edge).

BTW, you can get more detail on exactly what is happening by clicking on the bar beneath the city name while using the loyalty viewer:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018110923

[MeniliteZ]

Huh. I didn't think Free Cities were supposed to generate loyalty at all.

Also Seville does have an Entertainment Complex.

Thanks! Very much because I never knew about clicking on that bar!

I feel bad for Spain because Seville has the Fountain of Youth.

[Darklord]

Are you playing on Diety? It increases the loyalty strength of Free Cities.

I modded mine as otherwise the AI civs can end up being completely taken out by Free Cities.

Daniel.

[Copernicus]

Originally posted by Darklord:

Are you playing on Diety? It increases the loyalty strength of Free Cities.

I modded mine as otherwise the AI civs can end up being completely taken out by Free Cities.

Ah, yeah, that only happens if you're using the "Dramatic Ages" mode. Free cities don't generate external loyalty pressure otherwise; they only have internal loyalty.

Don't bother adding weird mods, just turn Dramatic Ages off.

[plaguepenguin]

The idea is that if Dramatic Ages is turned on, there might be another free city or two in the fog of war in that first screenshot that are exerting loyalty pressure on Seville, helping it resist Spain's loyalty pressure.

Nothing that might be in the fog would help Seville resist Spain unless this is a Dramatic Ages game. In a game without that mode turned on, the cities of another civ would contribute their pressure to Seville losing loyalty. City-states and other free cities would not contribute either way.

[Copernicus]

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

The idea is that if Dramatic Ages is turned on, there might be another free city or two in the fog of war in that first screenshot that are exerting loyalty pressure on Seville, helping it resist Spain's loyalty pressure.

Actually, the loyalty lens provides this information, in the form of those icons and triangles pointing towards Seville. There are exactly four cities contributing external loyalty pressure on this turn, and all four have Spain's national icon associated with them. If an external free city were providing loyalty pressure, a fifth icon representing it would have been placed there, even if the city itself was still obscured.

EDIT: The second screenshot provides an example of this, as Seville is shown receiving loyalty pressure from a city that has not yet been discovered.

[Darklord]

Originally posted by Copernicus:

Ah, yeah, that only happens if you're using the "Dramatic Ages" mode. Free cities don't generate external loyalty pressure otherwise; they only have internal loyalty.

Don't bother adding weird mods, just turn Dramatic Ages off.

Interesting. I must admit I love Dramatic Ages and always play with it. So good being able to slot different golden age cards.

Daniel.

[MeniliteZ]

Originally posted by Darklord:

Are you playing on Diety? It increases the loyalty strength of Free Cities.

Diety? I have trouble on King.

I'm not too good at early game. Especially at science. I don't get how people massively outclass the AIs at science.
Though I do tend to focus on Religion a lot. The one game I didn't found a religion, I couldn't stop a religious win. So now I make sure to found a religion every game.

And maybe build more military than I should.

There usually just aren't good campus adjacency spots early.