America Domination

[Btkidd]

OK, so I cant help it I am trying to win a domination victory as America on realistic map. I have lost 5 times now biggest problem is having to wait late game and getting across the oceans. I came real close last time I attacked the civ leading in culture took their capitol and over half their city states but they were still winning. Things didn't change until I made peace and as a condition took all of the city states I had captured by cede? Then they dropped out of the running of course another civ immediately took the lead in science and I lost before I could attack them. How does this work? Taking their capitol and city states had no effect until the cede?

[Sstavix]

Why are you waiting for "late game?" If you're using a realistic map, you should know where some of your opponents are located. (e.g. if they aren't in the Americas, they're probably in Europe, Africa or Asia). Get to Cartography and get your troops overseas ASAP!

Also it's usually best to win over the city-states as their suzeriain, rather than conquer them.

[plaguepenguin]

You beat the AI by getting higher yields of science, culture, gold, and production, which you get by having more districts, which you get by having more or bigger cities -- so taking cities from your opponents will definitely help you win. But only eventually.

While still at war, any cities you take will have reduced yields. They also lose 25% of their population from you conquering them, often have pillaging to recover from, and sometimes now have empty tiles where that civ's unique tile improvements used to sit, so there are all sorts of factors that keep captured cities from contributing much to your empire-wide yields until your opponent cedes them in a peace treaty, and they have time to recover from the other factors mentioned.

How does the AI beat your military?

I'm guessing it's because you are behind them in tech and production at the point you finally get to attack them. If that's the case you have to keep up in economic development. Even if your ultimate goal is to conquer all capitals and win by Domination, in the early and middle game you need to develop an economy that at least keeps up with the AIs, if not surpasses them, so you can build a military that can beat them. Early conquests feed back into your economy, by giving you more cities, districts, etc., but you need at least some initial jump start from peaceful expansion and economic development. Successful Domination generally proceeds by fits and starts on conquering capitals, because there are intervals of incorporating conquered cities into the economy you need to be always advancing in order to unlock and upgrade to ever better military units.

You might do better at getting the hang of working Civ as a war game in tandem with working it as an economic development game, if you played on ordinary maps before you tackle any TSL map. You mention the oceans messing with the pacing of your conquests, which, on a smaller world TSL in which the US is the sole North American civ, will indeed be a problem. Try pangaea maps during the initial learning phase. They will more readily let a natural rhythm of conquest and economic development emerge.

[Btkidd]

Thanks, I don't put much of anything into culture but I do develop science and in the last game I had over $23,000 and just bought things so I do heavily develop economy along with military but its the culture that always gets me it seems if I put much into that it slows my economy and as far as my military its above or equal to AI I had 8 jet bombers and some jet fighters I could pound the city states I never loss more then 2 infantry units during the whole campaign so I wasn't having any trouble militarily I was literally taking one city after another across the map until I got to the capitol but it didn't seem to matter that I had their capitol. It was just weird that even though I was taking most of their city states they were still wining culturally and science but having to cross the ocean is definitely one of the biggest problems until late game with aircraft carrier and airports even taking the capitols had no effect until we made peace and cede. I think trying on Pangaea may be a good Idea until I get to know how everything has what affect.

[plaguepenguin]

I think that the biggest boost to you from switching to pangaea maps and away from US start TSLs, is that it would let you do some early conquest of your neighbors. Putting off conquest until you can cross the oceans means that you don't have early conquered cities to help your early expansion and economic games. Let the AI get to late game undisturbed by your conquests, without you having the edge of occupying twice the land your start allotted to you, and they become pretty tough on defense. You have to conquer some of them early, before they have a chance to build walls and encampments everywhere and to get advanced units, in order for you to get enough early cities and yields that you get to the advanced late game units an era or two ahead of the survivors among your original competitors.

The other factor in favor of doing at least some early conquests is that by the late game there isn't enough time left to do any very effective integration of conquered cities into your development game. You have to make peace before the conquered cities contribute much, because there is a yield penalty as long as they are only occupied and haven't been ceded to you in a peace deal. Then there's the pillaging to clean up, and the population losses to recover. All of that, and it's too late in the game for the slower pace of the development game to feed back into helping your war game very much, even if you could integrate conquered cities instantly and seamlessly.

Another approach would be to stay TSL in North America, but go to a larger map, so that other civs would start next to you on the same land mass. You could get the beneficial effects of early conquest because you could get at your early victims without the need to cross oceans. I didn't suggest that originally, because I thought you might be earlier in the process of learning the game's mechanics, especially the development mechanics, than your latest response implies. Smaller maps are generally better for beginners, but once past that stage, why not go for a huge TSL, one that gives you several targets of early conquest on the same land mass?

[Btkidd]

I don't understand the cultural aspect that is how I have always lost. I have 3 times the tourism and much higher culture rating per turn and have researched everything so my science is above theirs but they are still winning by science and culture. So I go after the leaders to take them out first but is doesn't make much of a difference until peace and cede. And the domination victory is to take all the capitols but once I do they just change their capitol to another city? I have yet to run against any military to speak of all of it involves pounding the city with jet bombers and artillery then take the city with tank armies. I got sick of managing the trash cities so just razing them I rarely pillage so there isn't much to repair on the big cities I do keep they start being productive pretty quick. I earn around $600 per turn and just buy a lot of units near combat so I don't put much into military production barely even have a navy don't need it. China is just about to win cultural victory again with only 3 cities left unless I can destroy them first. I'm a glutton for punishment so I started another game on same map but in beginning I sent settlers and big military right across ocean and established myself on their continent so I didn't have to rely on crossing the ocean now late game, cut a path almost from one side to the other for movement can take a city in 5 to 6 turns but still losing I think civ 6 is heavily lopsided against domination and America it certainly seems that way. I enjoyed civ 5 much more to mine I like the tactical moves and military otherwise its just another build city sim stile game per turn out pace laying down particular districts - next turn. Religious victory should even be in game its a joke maybe there could be competition because it is so ridiculous difficult? Anyway I'm just ranting. Thanks for the advice and reply.

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by Btkidd:

I don't understand the cultural aspect that is how I have always lost. I have 3 times the tourism and much higher culture rating per turn and have researched everything so my science is above theirs but they are still winning by science and culture. So I go after the leaders to take them out first but is doesn't make much of a difference until peace and cede. And the domination victory is to take all the capitols but once I do they just change their capitol to another city? I have yet to run against any military to speak of all of it involves pounding the city with jet bombers and artillery then take the city with tank armies. I got sick of managing the trash cities so just razing them I rarely pillage so there isn't much to repair on the big cities I do keep they start being productive pretty quick. I earn around $600 per turn and just buy a lot of units near combat so I don't put much into military production barely even have a navy don't need it. China is just about to win cultural victory again with only 3 cities left unless I can destroy them first. I'm a glutton for punishment so I started another game on same map but in beginning I sent settlers and big military right across ocean and established myself on their continent so I didn't have to rely on crossing the ocean now late game, cut a path almost from one side to the other for movement can take a city in 5 to 6 turns but still losing I think civ 6 is heavily lopsided against domination and America it certainly seems that way. I enjoyed civ 5 much more to mine I like the tactical moves and military otherwise its just another build city sim stile game per turn out pace laying down particular districts - next turn. Religious victory should even be in game its a joke maybe there could be competition because it is so ridiculous difficult? Anyway I'm just ranting. Thanks for the advice and reply.

You only need to take the original capital city of each opponent for a domination victory. Although taking all the enemy's cities and removing them from the game does make it easier in the long run.

As for religious victory, I actually find that one the quickest and easiest condition to get. You only have a handful of units that never get outdated and completely ignore city walls and botders.

It sounds like you don't have a complete grasp of the basics. I can't see how many hours you have because of your profile, but you may want to test things out on a smaller map and lower difficulty. Try to win a game with each of the victory conditions. Once you can do that reliably, then try your American Domination run.

Good luck!

[cleric66]

How the hell are you winning using war ? from the very first turn in my games, if i attack anybody , I am Hated by the entire game for the next 750 turns, this can also happen if I'm only defending against an attack, something over 90% of all my games, I have had to win on culture. I only play at Settler setting,. I got super tired of Barbarian armies full of men at arms and muskets while I had sticks and stones. Who's the barbarian in 350 B.C.

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by cleric66:

How the hell are you winning using war ? from the very first turn in my games, if i attack anybody , I am Hated by the entire game for the next 750 turns, this can also happen if I'm only defending against an attack, something over 90% of all my games, I have had to win on culture. I only play at Settler setting,. I got super tired of Barbarian armies full of men at arms and muskets while I had sticks and stones. Who's the barbarian in 350 B.C.

If I'm going for a domination victory, I really don't care what the other civilizations think of me. Let them hate me. They'll fall before too long.

The barbarians, though, are frequently an issue. Unlike other civilizations, their tech level will always match the highest-level civilization in the game. So you need to learn how to keep them at bay and out of your lands. I find that enhancing your scout's visibility and keeping them on the borders of your country - where they can eliminate the fog of war - helps in this regard.

If you want some "barbarian training" I recommend the "Jadwiga's Legacy" scenario. I had a hard time with barbarians until I tried that scenario, where you have to learn how to place cities and encampments at key locations to fight off endless hordes. Once I learned these skills barbarians were no longer a threat - just an annoyance. Hopefully the same will go for you!

[Btkidd]

Sstavix - Well I guess I misunderstood the capitol thing then and wasted time. I chased them but nobody had any military I was unopposed making it easy. The hard to understand thing is how China was still winning culturally even to the last city until I took that and funny as it kind of crazy shortly after taking the last Roman city shortly after China I won the cultural victory not domination? Having settled cities early on their continent made a complete difference after establishing myself I barley used crossing the ocean again - aircraft carriers later. I never entered into a war with 2 civs at all and I think I won because I gained so much culture from the civs I beat. I think your right I don't understand Civ 6 well I know I'm playing like Civ 5 militarily and that has changed a lot. Another thing were the stats my tourism was 3 times higher than anyone and culture was also the highest but they were still winning unless I don't understand how that works, China was number 1 with way lower stats and the circle icon was almost completely full for them right to the last city. I started wit Rome after taking the capitol and most of cities I made a peace treaty condition they cede and it knocked them way down. I tried the same with China they cede and I even got another big city out of them but it had no affect?

Cheric66 -I have always started as Chieftain in the earliest age but used some cards that let me clear barbarians pretty easy. Yes I was denounced and hated by everybody but I didn't care. I was planning on taking them out anyway. Started very early and had no opposition I used a couple of cards that eliminated war weariness so that was never any issue and I could still trade with the city states I was Suzerain of I loaded them with envoys so they would attack on my behalf at times even. Of course the government you chose make a big difference I go to Oligarchy / Monarchy - big money / Communism (kind of a prick I know) Also I was playing on the real start huge map never had a single attack on my home continent other than barbarians. And, like I put above I didn't end up winning domination I won culturally despite literally dominating militarily I spent so much time trying to prevent them from a cultural win I was only half way to domination victory, very weighted against war I think because the other civs just jump right up by culture and science fast. What has worked is to concentrate on economic and your military I had insane money buying jet bombers in cities I had taken later before using air craft carriers and I say "what has worked" - obviously not good enough.

Thanks for advice and replies

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by Btkidd:

Sstavix - Well I guess I misunderstood the capitol thing then and wasted time. I chased them but nobody had any military I was unopposed making it easy. The hard to understand thing is how China was still winning culturally even to the last city until I took that and funny as it kind of crazy shortly after taking the last Roman city shortly after China I won the cultural victory not domination? Having settled cities early on their continent made a complete difference after establishing myself I barley used crossing the ocean again - aircraft carriers later. I never entered into a war with 2 civs at all and I think I won because I gained so much culture from the civs I beat. I think your right I don't understand Civ 6 well I know I'm playing like Civ 5 militarily and that has changed a lot. Another thing were the stats my tourism was 3 times higher than anyone and culture was also the highest but they were still winning unless I don't understand how that works, China was number 1 with way lower stats and the circle icon was almost completely full for them right to the last city. I started wit Rome after taking the capitol and most of cities I made a peace treaty condition they cede and it knocked them way down. I tried the same with China they cede and I even got another big city out of them but it had no affect?

While I haven't played Civ V (yet), I have played Civ IV, and cultural victories work very differently in that game, too. It took me a while to understand the whole tourism thing and how it worked in VI. (In fact, I've even had it occur a few times where I take over the last city of an empire and a different civilization ends up winning a cultural victory as a result!) So you're not alone in that aspect. It can be a bit confusing - and certainly different from the previous Civ games - but with a bit of practice I'm sure you'll get it.

[Btkidd]

As the warmonger I am at a new one already but I have a slightly different strategy.