Rock Bands - is there any point?

[grumble]

The game before the current one I tried using rock bands for the first time but after a couple of concerts the civ I was targeting banned my bands.
I tried again in my current game and before I even got to do one concert my bands got banned.
Is there any point building rock bands?

[colostmy4]

Major point to doing rock bands. You get big boost in tourism. If a civ bans your rock bands then send them to another civ, the tourism still adds to your overall tourism which makes it more difficult for any civ to dominate you in tourism. High tourism is necessary for winning a cultural victory and holding at bay other civs trying to win cultural victory.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Similar to how Giant Death Robots allow you to more easily/quickly finish a domination game, Rock Bands do similar for Culture victories.

[omnius]

Rock Bands are a fun diversion, love naming them after my favorite rock bands. Helps with tourism although I already have that covered.

[plaguepenguin]

As colostmy observes, the immediate response you should implement is simply to send the rock bands to some civ that hasn't banned them. The more long-term, preventive, plan is to field your rock bands before any other civs have unlocked the Music Censorship policy card. That way, you get to use rock bands on any civ. Your intended victim does have to give up a slot for this policy card, so even if they have got to Space Race and unlocked it, they may not have the card in play.

In the situation you describe, colostmy's advice to just send your bands to another civ
will just about always work, because some civs will always have not got to Space race, or will not be willing to give up a policy card slot to Music Censorship. The chances of your victims putting in the card increase after they get the fourth tier govt and have more slots available, so that's another reason to make your rock band move as early as you can manage.

[grumble]

I take the point about using rock bands early before they can be blocked.
But in the two cases I tried to use them it was when I was already culturally dominant over all but one civ and that civ blocked my rock bands so it seems they are no use when they would be really useful

[Evrach]

Originally posted by grumble:

I take the point about using rock bands early before they can be blocked.
But in the two cases I tried to use them it was when I was already culturally dominant over all but one civ and that civ blocked my rock bands so it seems they are no use when they would be really useful

Like someone already tried to explain, it doesn't matter towards who you send your rocks bands. Your tourism will rise no matter what, even if you don't send them to the civilization you're not yet dominant.

[Heau]

It does matter towards whom you send them - to an extent. See my last paragraph.

The civic to block them is so late down the tree that if you can't get yours out and active before the AI gets the Civic, you were probably too far behind to do a culture victory anyway. But in a typical CV game where you pull ahead, they definitely help beat the clock earlier.

And vs AI they are usually exploitable. Passive tourism draws tourists from every other civs but concerts do so from a single civ. And if you "rock band bomb" the enemy civ with the highest number of internal tourists - aka the culture victory defender - not only you generate international tourists for yourself, but you take internal tourists away from that civ. Like double-dipping towards the victory condition. Which makes them exceptionally potent in PvE.

[Lemurian1972]

If I don't have a tech advantage giving me a good Rock Band window, I tend to pivot my Faith into National Parks, or use the Biosphere trick to boost my final push on a Culture win. All depends on the timing. Like Spies, I find Rock Bands too hit or miss to rely on them as the core of a win plan.

[MeniliteZ]

The policy card that blocks bands also lowers Amenities. Could this be leveraged somehow? Maybe if you get their Amenities down you can get them to remove the card.

[Heau]

Originally posted by MeniliteZ:

The policy card that blocks bands also lowers Amenities. Could this be leveraged somehow? Maybe if you get their Amenities down you can get them to remove the card.

Hardly leverageable. The only ways to punish amenities that is under the player's control is stopping lux trade, which is pretty minimal and insignificant with many players (other civs have copies of your lux too) and warmongering/killing many of their units in their borders. But declaration of war applies a tourism malus and divests resources towards warmongering which would slow down CV more than it helps it.

At best the card takes them down 1 amenity tier and they lose 5-10% to all yields. Which isn't too bad in and of itself. If its the CV defender, it means they generate internal tourists 5-10% slower from that point forward.

[MeniliteZ]

Originally posted by Heau:

Originally posted by MeniliteZ:

The policy card that blocks bands also lowers Amenities. Could this be leveraged somehow? Maybe if you get their Amenities down you can get them to remove the card.

Hardly leverageable. The only ways to punish amenities that is under the player's control is stopping lux trade, which is pretty minimal and insignificant with many players (other civs have copies of your lux too) and warmongering/killing many of their units in their borders. But declaration of war applies a tourism malus and divests resources towards warmongering which would slow down CV more than it helps it.

At best the card takes them down 1 amenity tier and they lose 5-10% to all yields. Which isn't too bad in and of itself. If its the CV defender, it means they generate internal tourists 5-10% slower from that point forward.

Well, that's good to know! Thanks!