Victoria (steam age) vs Barbarossa

[DYNIA]

lets fight begin, whos better in production and 2nd other aspects expect faith, i dont use faith

i like them both, cant decide whos my main

i play without free citys and barbarians

[grognardgary]

Victoria's game seems to me to be focused more on late game cultural win than any thing else whlle production an gold is valuable beginning to end, and I think one of her specials really only works well on larger maps with a lot of continents.

[DYNIA]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Victoria's game seems to me to be focused more on late game cultural win than any thing else whlle production an gold is valuable beginning to end, and I think one of her specials really only works well on larger maps with a lot of continents.

but dosent barbarosa get more easy cultural win with +1 free district ?

[grognardgary]

Not really no. Victoria's bonuses for theming and more efficient use of museums trumps an extra district which may not actually contribute to culture in any case.

[jmerry82]

I don't think you're talking about the same leader and civ.

Victoria (original/Empire) of England, with vanilla or Rise and Fall rules:
- Gets free melee units when founding cities on foreign continents or building dockyards. Also gets the Redcoat.
- Museums get higher capacity and are automatically themed when full.

Victoria (Steam) of England, with Gathering Storm rules:
- Gets extra production from working strategic resources or from having industrial zone buildings.
- Gets bonuses to military engineers, iron and coal accumulation, yields from powered buildings, and producing industrial zone buildings.

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by jmerry82:

I don't think you're talking about the same leader and civ.

Victoria (original/Empire) of England, with vanilla or Rise and Fall rules:
- Gets free melee units when founding cities on foreign continents or building dockyards. Also gets the Redcoat.
- Museums get higher capacity and are automatically themed when full.

Victoria (Steam) of England, with Gathering Storm rules:
- Gets extra production from working strategic resources or from having industrial zone buildings.
- Gets bonuses to military engineers, iron and coal accumulation, yields from powered buildings, and producing industrial zone buildings.

Correct I was not aware the second existed.

[Reaper King]

Barbarrosa is probably the strongest leader if you want flexibillity. The Hansa, the bonus against city-states, the extra mil policy and the extra district slot make him incredibly strong if you are going for a military win, a science win, or want to do a little bit of everything.

[Squarefox]

Without city states as settings? Victoria.

[jmerry82]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Correct I was not aware the second existed.

And it's even two things mixed together.
- The Gathering Storm expansion replaced England's "British Museum" trait with an entirely new "Workshop of the World" trait. Only applicable when playing with GS rules, of course.
- The "Rulers of England" leader pack DLC from 2023 added a new "Age of Steam" persona for Victoria, and tagged the original version with "Age of Empire".

So this replaces a culture/tourism trait with an industrial trait, and then adds a new leader for the civ with production bonuses.

I don't see these leaders as being in direct competition. England's unique district is a Harbor replacement, which naturally pushes you toward a water map. Germany's unique district gets a Commercial Hub adjacency, which naturally pushes you toward a land map. So you're not even playing them on the same maps, and the strategies differ because of that.

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by jmerry82:

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Correct I was not aware the second existed.

And it's even two things mixed together.
- The Gathering Storm expansion replaced England's "British Museum" trait with an entirely new "Workshop of the World" trait. Only applicable when playing with GS rules, of course.
- The "Rulers of England" leader pack DLC from 2023 added a new "Age of Steam" persona for Victoria, and tagged the original version with "Age of Empire".

So this replaces a culture/tourism trait with an industrial trait, and then adds a new leader for the civ with production bonuses.

I don't see these leaders as being in direct competition. England's unique district is a Harbor replacement, which naturally pushes you toward a water map. Germany's unique district gets a Commercial Hub adjacency, which naturally pushes you toward a land map. So you're not even playing them on the same maps, and the strategies differ because of that.

True enough I had only played vickie in vanilla. Most of my games in GS have been with Cyrus and gilgamesh.

[Rift]

I prefer Steam Age Victoria over Frederick these days. Beyond the beginning of the game, I drop cities around strategics. Her +2 Production from Strategic Resources pairs well with "God of Craftsman's" +1 Production and +1 Faith from Strategics, especially early game with nearby Horse, Iron, and Niter. With mild investment into Faith production, you can print builders and settlers if you hit a Golden Age in the first 3 eras (easy to do), settle near strategics and pop out a free builder if you have Ancestral Hall, improve those strategics, and hit the ground running with those new cities. Her Industrial Zones might not be quite on par with Frederick's, but you have more freedom in where you place them. They can just as easily be almost as powerful if you can manage to get an Aqueduct and/or Dam / Canal in between your Industrial Zones, and the +10% production for each Indy building can make up for it (and the double adjacency for Indy Zones card). The only downsides with Victoria is that, 1, the AI rarely puts cities near the coast (which also makes Portugal kind of annoying to play), and 2, you lose out on her Redcoat unit...for some reason.

[DYNIA]

hmmm hmmm

she also have +4 resources from buildings that use power, that means if you have 10 citys with proper districts in end game

+40 gold, +40 science and + 40 kulture