Best settings for new player

[laagamer]

Howdy! Just bought all DLC and expansions with the heavy discount right now.

Bit overwhelmed.

Should I play scenarios or custom games? What's the best way to get going for a new player?

No civ experience before.

Thanks!

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by omnius:

When a new player says they're a bit overwhelmed it's not smart to give them advice that just overwhelms them more! Advise newbies to start slow and work their way up the learning curve going from standard to Rise and Fall and finally to Gathering Storm rules. There are so many new rules in RF and GS that it's better to do what I did and start with standard rules to learn the basics and then add new layers of complexity in later games.

And the response to that of course is that what is the point of learning ton of information that once you get to GS is useless. The differences are such that they are essentially two different games. A lot of stuff that is valid in Vanilla will get you killed in GS,

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Originally posted by omnius:

When a new player says they're a bit overwhelmed it's not smart to give them advice that just overwhelms them more! Advise newbies to start slow and work their way up the learning curve going from standard to Rise and Fall and finally to Gathering Storm rules. There are so many new rules in RF and GS that it's better to do what I did and start with standard rules to learn the basics and then add new layers of complexity in later games.

And the response to that of course is that what is the point of learning ton of information that once you get to GS is useless. The differences are such that they are essentially two different games. A lot of stuff that is valid in Vanilla will get you killed in GS,

I'm pretty sure that some basic concepts - like how to place districts, how to build units, and how (and when) to discover a religion - will remain the same between vanilla and GS. The expansions add to the ruleset, not subtract from them.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

I'd say skip standard rules all together. I could see the case for playing with just R&F, it is quite a bit closer to the final GS ruleset. But really, I think I'd just jump immediately to GS, and maybe play just domination victory condition only for 2 or 3 games. Then either turn them all on or perhaps all except religion. That one can be a bit more out there in terms of figuring it out.

The biggest change that sticking with the standard ruleset gives you that will be a bit confusing is the way units that need resources are produced/upgraded. The later method is much improved and much less confusing. If it weren't for that change I wouldn't mind the standard ruleset being recommended.

[Evrach]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

Originally posted by grognardgary:

And the response to that of course is that what is the point of learning ton of information that once you get to GS is useless. The differences are such that they are essentially two different games. A lot of stuff that is valid in Vanilla will get you killed in GS,

I'm pretty sure that some basic concepts - like how to place districts, how to build units, and how (and when) to discover a religion - will remain the same between vanilla and GS. The expansions add to the ruleset, not subtract from them.

Still a lot of things to unnecessarily unlearn. What would be the point ?

[Robo]

I have very mixed feelings about using the 3 main mods as new player.

Heroes are fine - some are more balanced than others but they are not broken and they are mostly fun to use.

Monopolies are broken - but as new player you wont notice that, your biggest change would be that you can create additional improvement over luxury resources and later use merchants to create monopoly. If you dont abuse it its mostly fun to use.

Societies - oh dear. The concept is fine and they are fun to use. UNTIL you face cultists when your enemy swarm your cities, blocks them, blocks improvements, blocks unit movement and makes the game completely unplayable. If you are warmonger you can at least declare war and clear them to make space. You wanted to play peaceful game? Bad luck - there is no way how to get rid of them, being ally or any diplomacy does not help.

Getting this in my first game would probably completely put me off the game forever. I ended up playing without societies because of this single thing alone. It is so unbelievably broken and annoying that it is borderline unplayable.

[Lemurian1972]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

Originally posted by grognardgary:

And the response to that of course is that what is the point of learning ton of information that once you get to GS is useless. The differences are such that they are essentially two different games. A lot of stuff that is valid in Vanilla will get you killed in GS,

I'm pretty sure that some basic concepts - like how to place districts, how to build units, and how (and when) to discover a religion - will remain the same between vanilla and GS. The expansions add to the ruleset, not subtract from them.

Half true. The expansions add, but they also replace mechanics which mean big changes in how you plan and execute your empire building settling, and wars.

Originally posted by omnius:

When a new player says they're a bit overwhelmed it's not smart to give them advice that just overwhelms them more! Advise newbies to start slow and work their way up the learning curve going from standard to Rise and Fall and finally to Gathering Storm rules. There are so many new rules in RF and GS that it's better to do what I did and start with standard rules to learn the basics and then add new layers of complexity in later games.

Again, you misunderstand the difference between the rulesets and the development of the game, and thus my point. The learning curve is more or less the same in all versions. Most of the new rules and systems don't dump themselves on you right away, as long as you set up your game properly. They come later in the curve, at stages when a player should already have a solid handle on the basics and is looking for more to learn.

The only thing your version of ramping up accomplishes is create incorrect and false expectations for how games are going to progress once you implement those later rules.

You like to claim we're ignoring the OP, but I say we're paying closer attention to them than you are. They specifically asked about the good ways to set up a game to learn from, which means they need info on how to start from the beginning, not that they're overwhelmed by mid or late game rules and features.

With that premise, I'm confident in saying with proper setup, the first 50-100 turns of most civ games are the same regardless of ruleset, so a new player is better off choosing the rules that aren't going to handicap their progress later.

So to reiterate my advice one final time:
- Choose the Gathering Storm(final) rules.
- Choose a decent size map with more than 3 other AI opponents (fewer than max so you have room to grow is fine, but pick more than 4 total so you're less likely to be gang targeted)
- Choose the difficulty rating you're most comfortable with, but Prince is the default setting and will give you the best picture of the game.
- Setting yourself up to play multiple learning games on outdated rulesets is only going to hinder you in the long run.
- Don't shut off multiple Victory Conditions, this just focuses the AI into being stiffer competition with you than it would be normally. Instead learn from the beginning how to monitor the Victory panel UI and keep an eye on how close your foes are getting to any type of Victory.

edit- fixed my incorrect callout of which ruleset to use. I always get them backwards for some reason.

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by BlackSmokeDMax:

I'd say skip standard rules all together. I could see the case for playing with just R&F, it is quite a bit closer to the final GS ruleset. But really, I think I'd just jump immediately to GS, and maybe play just domination victory condition only for 2 or 3 games. Then either turn them all on or perhaps all except religion. That one can be a bit more out there in terms of figuring it out.

The biggest change that sticking with the standard ruleset gives you that will be a bit confusing is the way units that need resources are produced/upgraded. The later method is much improved and much less confusing. If it weren't for that change I wouldn't mind the standard ruleset being recommended.

And lets not forget the whole loyalty mechanic. In base it makes since sometimes to march a warrior and a settler half way across the map to claim an important resource or grab a luxury you need to keep your people happy in GS you just donated some one else a city with out them even having to attack it.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Originally posted by BlackSmokeDMax:

I'd say skip standard rules all together. I could see the case for playing with just R&F, it is quite a bit closer to the final GS ruleset. But really, I think I'd just jump immediately to GS, and maybe play just domination victory condition only for 2 or 3 games. Then either turn them all on or perhaps all except religion. That one can be a bit more out there in terms of figuring it out.

The biggest change that sticking with the standard ruleset gives you that will be a bit confusing is the way units that need resources are produced/upgraded. The later method is much improved and much less confusing. If it weren't for that change I wouldn't mind the standard ruleset being recommended.

And lets not forget the whole loyalty mechanic. In base it makes since sometimes to march a warrior and a settler half way across the map to claim an important resource or grab a luxury you need to keep your people happy in GS you just donated some one else a city with out them even having to attack it.

Good point, loyalty is HUGE. And a very good addition IMO as well.

[CoronusAtrus]

Originally posted by Lemurian1972:

So to reiterate my advice one final time:
- Choose the Gathering Storm(final) rules.
- Choose a decent size map with more than 3 other AI opponents (fewer than max so you have room to grow is fine, but pick more than 4 total so you're less likely to be gang targeted)
- Choose the difficulty rating you're most comfortable with, but Prince is the default setting and will give you the best picture of the game.
- Setting yourself up to play multiple learning games on outdated rulesets is only going to hinder you in the long run.
- Don't shut off multiple Victory Conditions, this just focuses the AI into being stiffer competition with you than it would be normally. Instead learn from the beginning how to monitor the Victory panel UI and keep an eye on how close your foes are getting to any type of Victory.

I second this as a good way to learn. The only thing I will add, since no one has explicitly advised it, is play the tutorial. It sounds trite, but they will guide you through the basic mechanics which will help you recognize what is going on and learn from it when you are playing a proper game.