Nihang's?

[Roided Caillou]

Are nihangs improved by stables or just barracks? Everything only seems to mention barracks.

[Lemurian1972]

They're a melee unit. No reason Stables would improve them.

[Stormwinds]

I cannot find anything to confirm that stables help them, but you should probably still be building at least 1 Barracks somewhere in your empire if you plan on being aggressive since melee units are your bread and butter for at least half the game. Nihangs should get the increased xp too, so there is at least some incentive to build a Barracks assuming that Stables work too.

Originally posted by Lemurian1972:

They're a melee unit. No reason Stables would improve them.

Nihangs get increased combat strength based on having at least 1 of each tier of Encampment buildings in your empire. OP is wondering if Stables apply for the combat strength upgrade from the first tier of buildings since the description only mentions Barracks.

[Lemurian1972]

Originally posted by Stormwinds:

Nihangs get increased combat strength based on having at least 1 of each tier of Encampment buildings in your empire. OP is wondering if Stables apply for the combat strength upgrade from the first tier of buildings since the description only mentions Barracks.

Gotcha. I wasn't thinking of that, I read 'improved' as the bonus to xp granted when the correct unit type is spawned in a city with that building. My error.

I agree with you that I'm not 100% certain, but I think Barracks apply but stables don't.

[plaguepenguin]

This is probably one of those questions for which the answer is not documented anywhere, and which can only be resolved by observation.

So, if you are asking because you have suzerained Lahore and are about to build your first tier encampment building, please save game, build a stables, see if that increases the Nihang's strength, and report back the results of the experiment in this thread. You save the game, of course, so you can go back and build a barracks if the stables doesn't do the job.

It's not save-scumming if you are carrying out a scientific experiment designed to extend mankind's knowledge of Civ 6.

[Roided Caillou]

Okay, so i tested it. I had a stable already built and after liberating Lahore and buying a nihang it had a base combat strength of 25. I then purchased a stable in a newly conquered city and it did not increase. After reloading and purchasing a barracks instead it increased to 40 combat strength. Guess they truly meant it when they said barracks. Which makes sense, them being a melee unit and all. Just wanted to check on the off chance any tier one building would work.

Thanks everyone.

[grognardgary]

The real question of course is whether a melee unit whose strength maxes out around fifty and doesn't appear to upgrade to anything else is worth building in the first place.

[Lemurian1972]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

The real question of course is whether a melee unit whose strength maxes out around fifty and doesn't appear to upgrade to anything else is worth building in the first place.

What? It doesn't only scale from the Barracks, that's just the first upgrade. Armory and Military Academy bump it up more. It scales up to Infantry level (strength 87) before promotions, and stays relevant until the Information Era units. With promotions and army upgrades it can be used even into the Information era.

They don't cost any Strategic Resource, they can be bought cheaply with Faith, they're not era restricted when it comes to Great Generals so even obsolete generals still work with them. Sadly Siege support units don't help them, but they're massively useful for most jobs, and if you can get a tech advantage and build an Academy early, they end up being beefy enough to still cap walled cities during a big chunk of the midgame.

[plaguepenguin]

Thanks for trying the experiment and reporting the results.

Nihang are quite nice, because they are cheap, superior to competitive in strength through most of the game, have a nice special promotion tree, and don't require strategics. The two highlights of their promotion tree are that they have a 2nd tier promotion that gives them an extra mvt point, and their 3rd tier gives them +10 strength while you are suzerain of Lahore.

Their only big drawback is that you have to have Lahore on your map, and you have to manage to become its suzerain, the earlier the better. To get the full benefit of them you do also have to build encampments and their buildings as soon as you can, and have at least a modest faith income -- but, if conquest is at all in your plans, you should be more than willing to do all these things.

The thing about this game is that -- more the higher the difficulty level but somewhat at all levels -- there are many of these special case little gems like the Nihang scattered around that are powerful enough to save you from otherwise impossible situations, or even just make your life easier, but to fully take advantage of them requires knowledge of details such as whether barracks, stables, or both get their first +15 boost. If you don't know how to get the most out of them, you tend to not be on the lookout for the occasions when Nihang are available.

[Lemurian1972]

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

you have to have Lahore on your map, and you have to manage to become its suzerain, the earlier the better.

Nice thing is, the AI almost never decides to compete for this city. They'll attack it so it's better if you are close enough to protect it, but it's usually pretty easy to get and keep Suzerain.

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by Lemurian1972:

Originally posted by grognardgary:

The real question of course is whether a melee unit whose strength maxes out around fifty and doesn't appear to upgrade to anything else is worth building in the first place.

What? It doesn't only scale from the Barracks, that's just the first upgrade. Armory and Military Academy bump it up more. It scales up to Infantry level (strength 87) before promotions, and stays relevant until the Information Era units. With promotions and army upgrades it can be used even into the Information era.

They don't cost any Strategic Resource, they can be bought cheaply with Faith, they're not era restricted when it comes to Great Generals so even obsolete generals still work with them. Sadly Siege support units don't help them, but they're massively useful for most jobs, and if you can get a tech advantage and build an Academy early, they end up being beefy enough to still cap walled cities during a big chunk of the midgame.

Sorry I'm misreading something It starts out at 25 gets 7 more from promotions and +1 movement like every other infantry unit and then +5 for each of barracks, armory and the last one? I get 47 where is the other forty points coming from?

[plaguepenguin]

Unless they've changed it lately, it's +15 strength for every tier encampment building, not +5. Also, they are classified in the wiki as "melee", but they use their own promotion tree,not the melee tree. There is this tier 1 promotion that gives them +7, but only "when flanked", then there's a tier 2 promotion that gives them the extra mvt point, then their tier 3 promotion gives +10 if you are suzerain of Lahore. It's been a while since I had Nihang, but my calculation is that a Nihang army with the tier 3 promotion and at least one military academy in their empire would be 25 + 45 + 17 + 10 = 97, with another +7 "when flanked", for 104, which is quite respectable.

I put the "when flanked" in quotes because I don't remember from observation whether the +7 applies only when the enemy has flanking bonuses on your Nihang, only when your Nihang has flanking bonuses on the enemy, or in both situations. it seems an odd and ambiguous way to phrase it.

[grognardgary]

I'll have to go look at the wiki again not that the wiki is always accurate;