Siege Tower question

[eastwind]

Does a siege tower (and I suppose a battering ram) provide it's anti-wall effect if it is embarked on a water tile next to the city center?

How can I tell if I have that situation set up in game?

[Lemurian1972]

I honestly don't know, but I'd guess no. You can always set it up, save the game and test attack to see if it works. Even just selecting a unit in position and mousing over the city will give you the estimated damage which can show you if the Support unit works.

[grognardgary]

never having seen a reason to build one I can't say.

[eastwind]

I had it set up in my game, which was why I asked. And just for grognardy, I didn't train the siege tower, it was a goody hut gift.

I moved the tower in a sea hex next to the city and attacked by land with heavy cavalry. The notification log (I have a mod that shows it) says I did 1 city center damage and 12 defense damage. Hovering over the city's health bar shows garrison health 199/200 and fortification health 188/200.

So it looks to me like the siege tower isn't doing anything when embarked, but I can't tell whether the city has renaissance walls or not. There are two little shield icons to the left of the strength number which is to the left of the health bars. Does that mean level 2, Medieval, walls?

So I reloaded, and this time landed the siege unit next to the city on land, and then attacked with the cavalry, and I got the same damage result! It makes me think the city has Renaissance walls, or that I don't understand what's going on at all.

Just to close the loop, I ran a third time, this time with the siege tower not adjacent on land or sea, and the cavalry did the same damage, 1 to the defenses and 12 to the wall.
So clearly the siege tower is doing nothing under any circumstance.

*How can I tell what level of walls a city has?*

[Stormwinds]

Your mods might be acting up. I would suggest that you test it with a Melee or Anti-Cavalry unit.

You can tell what level of walls a city has by hovering your mouse over the City Center. If the city has a second health bar but the pop-up does not list any walls, the City has Urban Defenses. You could also see how much health the second health bar has as each layer of walls adds 100 health with Urban Defenses giving 400 health regardless of which level of walls a city has.

[plaguepenguin]

Rams and towers only give their benefit to melee and anti-cav attacks on cities.

If you want to use heavy cav to blitz walled cities, you have to be Basil.

[grognardgary]

And only Basil works never Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, or Thyme.

[gdshore]

One other issue, the ram or tower need to be under or beside the support unit to gain the advantage.

[grognardgary]

Worst part of being old, no one ever gets your musical references...

[MrSogard]

Simon and Garfunkel are smiling somewhere grognardgary. But are you going to Scarborough Fair?

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by MrSogard:

Simon and Garfunkel are smiling somewhere grognardgary. But are you going to Scarborough Fair?

No but could sing the song by heart once upon a time along with most of the rest of their stuff,

[plaguepenguin]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

And only Basil works never Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, or Thyme.

Sure. A battering ram is basically a large pestle, or, in Italian, a pesto. Pesto is only made with basil, and never those other herbs you mention, so only Basil's heavy cav carry notional battering rams with them that allow them to deal with enemy walls.

This is so obvious and inarguable that I didn't think I would have to explain it to this crowd.

[plaguepenguin]

Originally posted by gdshore:

One other issue, the ram or tower need to be under or beside the support unit to gain the advantage.

I believe that's how it worked at first, that only melee and anti-cav units in the same hex or in the adjacent hexes would benefit from the ram and tower effects. You would need at least two rams or towers to let attackers from all 6 hexes around a city benefit.

Somewhere along the way they changed it. Now you only need one ram or tower next to the city and all melee and anti-cav attacking the city get the benefit, even if not next to or under the ram or tower.

[gdshore]

That may be, but you run a ram or tower up to a city wall, if there is a defender inside it comes out kills tower or ram and returns to city in same turn. They need defence and has none of its own.

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

never having seen a reason to build one I can't say.

You're missing out.

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Originally posted by grognardgary:

never having seen a reason to build one I can't say.

You're missing out.

Not that I've noticed. I'd rather have another archer than a siege tower. Fewer casualties.