Can't build obsolete units?

[InaneDragon]

Genuinely, what were you thinking? I've been loving this game, but I've just run into a deal breaker.

I have no access to niter. I need to wage a war to get access to niter. However, I've researched everything I need to build bombards, cavalry, and musketmen. Which means the game won't let me build catapults, knights, and swordsmen.

But, I don't have niter. So I can't build the bombards, cavalry, or musketmen either.

WHAT THE LITERAL ♥♥♥♥ WHERE YOU THINKING?

Being technologically advanced has ♥♥♥♥♥♥ my entire civilization into losing the game. Every previous version of Civ, if you didn't have the resources to build the "latest and greatest", you could build the previous generation. Civ 6, if you advance past your available resources, you are simply ♥♥♥♥♥♥. And you have to do the research to find out if you have access to the resources. So, in short, YOU ARE ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Helen Carnate]

If only they put in some way for you to trade to get the supplies you need.......

[InaneDragon]

If only the AI had built mines on the necessary tiles, or was on top of research to have access to those resources...

Gee, you think I didn't think of that?

EDIT: more over, the point isn't just about access to resources available to a civilization. What if none of the discovered empires had access to niter? I've still cut my legs off by having done the research to discover niter, because I can no longer build as effective of a military.

[Pamput]

@gscurd75: the problem is, even if trading strategic resources with the AI would be possible (which is not most of the time), having this and only alternative sucks. There should be at least an alternative to trading.

@InaneDragon: yes, this sucks. I agree with you. Trade most of the time is not viable because the AI is just too stupid. I would like to have at least the alternative to conquer an enemy city that has the resource I need, which given the current state of things I can't because I'm too advanced to create catapults.

Honestly I feel this is more a bug than a design decision.

[dagothar]

It's not a bug. It's a decision that hasn't been thought through.

[cryodacry]

the really funny part is you can't build military engineer's when you really want them to make air strips.... this really makes airplanes even more worthless then normal

[Shintai]

Its most likely a hotfix for the AI. So it wouldnt keep making warriors or so.

Same reason as the AI hardly, if ever upgarde units. So you see archers and knights fighting along artillery and tanks.

[CivNut123]

I do agree, as well. You should be able to build less technologically advanced units. Many of your opponents will be able to spam lesser units, while you wait 20 turns.

[Sampsy]

Yeah I've been running in to this problem constantly. At best it forces you to spend longer training the newer units than you want - at worst you can't make any units at all.

If you just want to make a ranged unit quickly you might want to build an archer which you might be able to make in say ~2-4 turns. But if you just finished the tech for crossbowmen you now have no option but to wait ~8 turns.

Similar to the OP I just finished gunpowder, unlocking the Musketman and revealing niter on the map. Except there isn't any niter and now I can't make Musketmen OR the Legion units (Paing as Trajan) that I was making previously.

This really needs a patch.

[ambershee]

It was the same in Civ 5; Swordsmen and Longswordsmen required iron; if you didn't have it, you couldn't get past Warriors until you got Muskets. You could however instead use Spearmen instead of Swordsmen and Pikemen instead of Longswordsman and not be at too huge a disadvantage.

You can still do the same in Civ 6 and use Pikeman instead of Swordsmen and Muskets. They have however made it worse in Civ 6 since you need iron for Swordsmen, then niter for Muskets, meaning you get stuck between Warriors and Infantry, which is a freaking huge jump from one end of the tech tree to the other. This is also why the AI gets stuck with buckets of unupgraded Warriors.

[uglysquid]

I haven't even unlocked uranium, yet, but now I can't build submarines because I researched telecommunications (nuclear submarines). Going to need a mod, probably, and then another mod to re-enable achievements with mods active.

[katzenkrimis]

It's your own fault.

The best strategy gamers in the world are good because they are masters at anticipating what's to come.

If you prepared ahead of time, then it would have been smooth sailing.

Don't blame the game. Blame yourself.

Or ask for advice.

Myself, I scout the entire map very fast, using scouts and ships. So the City State of Hatussa is often a main target for me to send envoys. Which gives me all the resources I need. Including Niter.

[Dragabond]

The inability to build obsolete units is frustrating, true, but it doesn't have to be crippling. Does it make much sense? No, not really. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get weaker unit types if it isn't possible for you to get the most upgraded versions.

However, there are always avenues around them. Pikemen require no resource and you should still be able to build them. Cavalry don't require niter, they require horses, so if you have those, you have any of the light cavalry class of units. Do they suck? More or less, yes. Does it matter? It...really really shouldn't.

If you have to wage a war in order to get a resource that you can use to train more units with which to go to war, then what do you need the resource for, exactly? o.O You can probably get by without it, using other unit types that you can build or whatever units you already have. Or you hope you can. Maybe you fail, I dunno. It's a crap shoot.

It just shouldn't be that big of a deal, unless the entire world has banded together to collectively punch you in the face, and since you've already said that you're ahead on tech the only thing that really means is that you should be more careful with your units and try to keep them safe until they can be upgraded.

So don't fret, friend. It's not the end of the world. (Unless you're getting nuked.)

[Renz]

I agree. My current situation is with iron. How can you make a unit that's so strong compared to the unit type before it (warrior) and make the resource only near one civilization? I have no iron anywhere near me.

The niter issue has also happened to me, luckily I was able to get some, but the resources are not spread out well enough imo and it sets civs up for failure.

That along with maps constantly having oceans being seperated is almost a deal breaker for me. It's incredibly annoying.

[Imzadi]

Originally posted by Dragabond:

The inability to build obsolete units is frustrating, true, but it doesn't have to be crippling. Does it make much sense? No, not really. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get weaker unit types if it isn't possible for you to get the most upgraded versions.

However, there are always avenues around them. Pikemen require no resource and you should still be able to build them. Cavalry don't require niter, they require horses, so if you have those, you have any of the light cavalry class of units. Do they suck? More or less, yes. Does it matter? It...really really shouldn't.

If you have to wage a war in order to get a resource that you can use to train more units with which to go to war, then what do you need the resource for, exactly? o.O You can probably get by without it, using other unit types that you can build or whatever units you already have. Or you hope you can. Maybe you fail, I dunno. It's a crap shoot.

It just shouldn't be that big of a deal, unless the entire world has banded together to collectively punch you in the face, and since you've already said that you're ahead on tech the only thing that really means is that you should be more careful with your units and try to keep them safe until they can be upgraded.

So don't fret, friend. It's not the end of the world. (Unless you're getting nuked.)

Ok... not fretting... but here is what happened:
- I got Combustion. I can build Tanks. Tanks require oil. I got oil.
- I learn Composites which unlocks Modern Armor and Uranium
- Modern Armor is upgrade for Tank but Modern Armor requires Uranium
- I get attacked by CIV with Tanks but I can't build Tanks BECAUSE THEY'RE OBSOLETE TO ME and I can't build Modern Armor because I DONT HAVE URANIUM
- The closest Heavy Calvary unit to Tanks are Knights who get their butts handed to them by Tanks and I CAN"T PRODUCE THEM EITHER.

I get it. It's a game and I'll plan for it next time but is CIV really trying to tell me "Because you can make guns, you can't make crossbows anymore"???? The Walking Dead would disagree.

[Dragabond]

Originally posted by Brother J:

Ok... not fretting... but here is what happened:
- I got Combustion. I can build Tanks. Tanks require oil. I got oil.
- I learn Composites which unlocks Modern Armor and Uranium
- Modern Armor is upgrade for Tank but Modern Armor requires Uranium
- I get attacked by CIV with Tanks but I can't build Tanks BECAUSE THEY'RE OBSOLETE TO ME and I can't build Modern Armor because I DONT HAVE URANIUM
- The closest Heavy Calvary unit to Tanks are Knights who get their butts handed to them by Tanks and I CAN"T PRODUCE THEM EITHER.

I get it. It's a game and I'll plan for it next time but is CIV really trying to tell me "Because you can make guns, you can't make crossbows anymore"???? The Walking Dead would disagree.

xD Yeah, it sucks.

I mean, I get why they make it so that you can't build the obsolete units anymore. Their production costs would make it so that you could produce one or more every single turn and zerg rush the map. Which...honestly, if I choose to that, that should be my business, so why not allow it. But clutter is a thing.


Also pointing out that the anti-cavalry line never has a requirement. Spearmen, Pikemen, AT Crew. Also the Ranged line never has a resource requirement. You can load up on those all you want.

They might not be the best troops that you could possibly have, but if you don't have the resources to get those other troops then they actually are the best troops that you can have.

There's always options. :]