Nomadic from the start = great logical mistake

[ancalimon]

There is a great mistake made in history.

A group can not become nomads without becoming sufficient in technology. Actually nomadism must be a very late way of life. It wouldn't be logical and possible for a group of people to venture into a death trap where life is harsh and full of dangers.

We can see this from archaeology. The quality of steel found 3000 thousand years ago used by people who became nomads could only be reached in Europe during the 20th century.

[MustardMeme]

Apparently the Aborigines never discovered the wheel,o r uses for it.

[grognardgary]

In fact the calendar used in the Islamic is a lunar calendar and is very different from that used in the west. Russia and the rest of Europe had different Calendars at least as late as the Battle of Austerlitz.

[The Yeen Queen]

I mean, I'm seriously curious how OP thinks civilization began in the real world. Does he think humans just spawned into existence with cities already formed?

[grognardgary]

Publicado originalmente por Night Foxx:

I mean, I'm seriously curious how OP thinks civilization began in the real world. Does he think humans just spawned into existence with cities already formed?

He does have one thing right, there were cities well before 4000 BC, but the reason the game doesn't start you in a city is to simplify the ai's world creation task. and thereby programing

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

Publicado originalmente por SLGray:

What are you exactly want to achieve by this topic? Are you suggesting a change to the very beginning of the game?

I think this must be thought thoroughly in the light of recent (last 10 years or so) discoveries. Not only is anthropological knowledge obsolete by now. We also have many games that have these outdated ideas.

I don't think you are wrong with this statement.

Though most of your logic/conclusions in regards to the connection between tech and nomadic life does not hold up.

[:) m Ö r Ö n (:]

Development of unique values takes time and power. Even nomads were offering drinks.

There are leader agenda based symbols of wealth - areas of France with Wine and Crabs, Russia with Furs, Gems or Amber, and people at East Asia started to drink luxury named Tea very very early at areas of China - not knew when they discovered Silk...

At earlier Civilization games it was usual to restart many times and pray to get wine with France or anything matter else. It was usual to get plantations with "Calendar" but this is not full point of mine.

This should be the reason to working with barbarians, and they start like to fear me and join my empire any way or another - in my dreams.

[ancalimon]

See the 15th chapter of this book for an example about how a sedentary group of people turned into nomads. Without settling, it is extremely difficult and illogical for a group of people become nomads. There always has to be a reason and it is most probably mostly related with climate change and/or invasion.

https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=7nRjEAAAQBAJ&pg=GBS.PR5&hl=en

[The Yeen Queen]

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

See the 15th chapter of this book for an example about how a sedentary group of people turned into nomads. Without settling, it is extremely difficult and illogical for a group of people become nomads. There always has to be a reason and it is most probably mostly related with climate change.

https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=7nRjEAAAQBAJ&pg=GBS.PR5&hl=en

So WTF do you think they did before they settled?

[ancalimon]

Publicado originalmente por Night Foxx:

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

See the 15th chapter of this book for an example about how a sedentary group of people turned into nomads. Without settling, it is extremely difficult and illogical for a group of people become nomads. There always has to be a reason and it is most probably mostly related with climate change.

https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=7nRjEAAAQBAJ&pg=GBS.PR5&hl=en

So WTF do you think they did before they settled?

They settled a place until it was no longer viable to stay there. Then they traveled somewhere better?

[robert.steven.marshall]

I'm still waiting on this example of 3000 year old steel better than 20th century steel.

Maybe if you gave a real world historical example of technologically advanced nomads that you are basing this on then we could compare to other comparable settled civilizations and see if there is any basis for your claims but it just sounds like you've let a thought experiment get away from you tbh.

[grognardgary]

Suffice it to say some version of humanity has been around for perhaps 2.5 million years the first permanent human built structures do not show up until roughly 12000 years ago with gobekli Tepi There is limited evidence of people using caves and the like going back maybe 30 to 40 k years I know of some recent discoveries of cave habitation in Africa but I don't know the dates right off hand or the species of Hominid that occupied them. So exactly what do you think hominids did for the preceding 2,450,000

[The Yeen Queen]

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

Publicado originalmente por Night Foxx:

So WTF do you think they did before they settled?

They settled a place until it was no longer viable to stay there. Then they traveled somewhere better?

....that's nomadic culture you're describing.

[ancalimon]

Publicado originalmente por Night Foxx:

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

They settled a place until it was no longer viable to stay there. Then they traveled somewhere better?

....that's nomadic culture you're describing.

Nomads do not settle a place. They temporarily live in a place and use advanced carriages to travel and carry things that are essential and light. They build temporary shelters using advanced textiles that provide isolation.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

Publicado originalmente por Night Foxx:

....that's nomadic culture you're describing.

Nomads do not settle a place. They temporarily live in a place and use advanced carriages to travel and carry things that are essential and light. They build temporary shelters using advanced textiles that provide isolation.

There is nothing "advanced" required in those situations.

[ancalimon]

Publicado originalmente por BlackSmokeDMax:

Publicado originalmente por ancalimon:

Nomads do not settle a place. They temporarily live in a place and use advanced carriages to travel and carry things that are essential and light. They build temporary shelters using advanced textiles that provide isolation.

There is nothing "advanced" required in those situations.

Wheel and felt textiles are advanced technologies. The nomads to sedentary populations must have made an impression with their carriages. They probably looked like aliens visiting Earth.