AI always ahead of me on technology progression.

[Molly ~]

AI seem a bit hard for me to be playing with, even though I chose the easy level like level 3, somehow they always got a better units while having the best defend (fortification) technology available as well.

I was playing in early medieval age and some AI already got musketeers/canon... How do I generate science points that fast? I got 6 towns with max upgrade campus and still far behind on their technology, already on 4th games and it happen even the easy game with 1 difficulty :(

Any tips? I kind of new to CIV VI, but I do play CIV V before, and remember that AI would always 1-2 era behind instead ... This is really hard to play

[GreyWolf]

I dont want to sound arrogant...but I am new to civ VI as well and both games I played it was toooo easy on prince.

Just pay attention to the details and mechanics behind it and you will get good quickly. Read tutorials as well.

[Exemplar]

Anticipate eurekas, try to keep population up above 5. Put campuses in spots with better adjacency bonuses and stack natural philosophy policy card at recorded history civic for which you probably earned the inspiration with multiple campuses. Practice, look at the math, see what you can do better next time.

further... just because an AI has a couple early tricks doesn't mean it's ahead across the board, although it may be, but usually is not. It has beelined a specific plateau to have that level of military and you can (and should) do that, too. Plan ahead, get masonry, build a wall, get engineering, build an aqueduct, get military engineering, see where your niter is, mine niter, build an encampment with barracks and armory, get gunpowder. Build a couple seige towers. Yesterday I did this with ottomans on immortal difficulty without building one campus (although I had decent tile economy, notably, with ample population and production) and started wrecking my neighbor, Nubia (who I'd been staving off surprise wars with horsemen and walls) in about 400AD, and had all her 8 cities by 1000AD, now equal or stronger than any competitor, and I have her campuses and everything else she built.

[epicsimian]

So the earliest source of science you will get is from city states. Build a scout right away and start exploring, and be careful with him, he's fragile so avoid barbarians. Apart from the obvious science city states, the brown production city states help with science since they will make it easier to get buildings in place like the granary that will increase your population, or the buildings for your campus.

Also, focus on getting those eurekas (the solution for this is also the scout unit), they make a big difference. Unless you're bee lining for something specific that you know you'll need immediately keep researching techs that are boosted and look for ways to get more boosts, like building 3 archers, settling on a coast, etc...

There are going to be some AI opponents that are just inherently stronger at generating science, Korea is a good example. If you're behind them in science don't take it as a basis for all AI opponents.

In the higher difficulties you will start off way behind in culture and science. I only bring it up because the solution is just to focus on early game expansion and then bounce back and surpass the AI's culture and science later. More cities = more districts = more science/culture/faith/gold whatever you're looking for so grab that land early on and worry about catching up later.

It sounds like what you did with having campus' in all your cities was the right move, just because you're behind doesn't necessarily mean you'll stay there, also look at their science generated per turn as you may be catching up to them and not even realizing it.

In rare cases the AI will get a really strong start and have a bunch of weak neighbors that it spring boarded off of. In these cases the way to win is to directly pursue harming this 1 AI, either through war, spies, or whatever.

Playing on smaller maps lets you control the early game a bit more so you don't have 1 AI beat up some other AI for a huge head start. Turning off tribal villages removes a lot of RNG from the game and makes it a bit more predictable and controllable. Once you are better you can turn them back on to give the AI an edge against you.

[Exemplar]

Building a bunch of campus districts with poor adjacency bonus, unless you get bonus from 2 or more blue city states, is actually pretty backwards. You could do just about anything else to get some better advantage across the board for the time and production you've spent netting 10-35 science points from 4 or 5 campuses with library/university. I mean, really, 5 campus with no blue city state, +1 adjacency bonus and library+ university, all that work for a handful of science points, you could have zerged 2 neighbors with classical/medieval units with that amount of work. Either make them with purpose or do something else more productive.

Or play a game as Korea. Get tech advantage out of your system until you're bored with it.

[epicsimian]

If you're focusing a certain victory type you're going to have to build some districts with poor adjacency bonuses somewhere along the line. It becomes negligible once you get the buildings in place for all but maybe the harbor and engineering districts.

That being said, good planning certainly helps so if you do have a good spot to build a campus don't just throw it away. Just know that some cities will not have a good place to put one and at best you will get +1 or +2 yield from bunching up your districts.

[Exemplar]

Originally posted by epicsimian:

If you're focusing a certain victory type you're going to have to build some districts with poor adjacency bonuses somewhere along the line.

I... can't think of a scenario this is true. A city spending 80-100 turns to get +7 or even +9 of anything isn't ever going to be a great contributor. Many times you can do that with a couple builders another city spent 10 total turns making. You don't win games by having the most great scientist points. Nor do 2 or 3 great artists really put you over the top more than a handful of seaside resorts, ski resorts, or a couple national parks in the cultural victory area.

to add: I don't want to seem argumentative today, although I realize I do, some. I think you have good ideas and a willingness to help. I just have trouble reconciling some numbers I know to not be effective when I'm genuinely trying to help, too. It may be I play too much and have a different perspective.

[OZFugazi]

Originally posted by ~ Molly ~:

AI seem a bit hard for me to be playing with, even though I chose the easy level like level 3, somehow they always got a better units while having the best defend (fortification) technology available as well.

I was playing in early medieval age and some AI already got musketeers/canon... How do I generate science points that fast? I got 6 towns with max upgrade campus and still far behind on their technology, already on 4th games and it happen even the easy game with 1 difficulty :(

Any tips? I kind of new to CIV VI, but I do play CIV V before, and remember that AI would always 1-2 era behind instead ... This is really hard to play :sadelf:

hi molly.

the ai's #1 source of science is its (city) population. most if not all ai cities will more than likely always focus on farms and population over raw districts and placement/adjacency. and while you as the player will not or do not have that "luxury" as you will need to balance your luxuries and more importantly your amenities (from all sources btw) to afford the same large population cities, you can stay within range of science overall by focusing what is important to either your civs development (ie win type you are focusing on), or defense/offense.. example.. playing island type maps and needing a navy to support your borders, or maybe having an aggressive neighbor and needing musketmen as well to defend. and focusing those paths in the tree.

as mentioned above, adjacency bonuses, district placement, suzerain bonuses with science based city states, natural wonders that tile science bonuses, world wonders that give science bonuses ect all can help, but having the amenities to focus large and prosperous populations will help the most.

or

you could focus on laying low.. being friendly with everyone.. building that terrifying force (nukes do well here) and waiting for that appropriate moment to completely destroy that run away civ that is one stage away from launching their final space project. sometimes, no matter what you do, there is that one civ (and you will learn them over time) that can focus science so strongly (looking at you korea) that destroying them before they win that science victory is something you need to be ready for and preparing for.. year one. either through alliance wars with other friendly civs and ganging up on the runaway.. or paying another civ to hender that civs progress by buying them to war that civ.. or waring them yourself, to not take the city, but focus a raze campaign that destroys their districts, farms, sources of amenities and anything else that can contribute to science and population decrease. you can do this without a large hit in warmongering penalty as long as you don't take or completely raze the city.

there are other tricks.. but these few can help you turn the tides should you fall behind.

all the best.

[epicsimian]

Well it wildly varies by district. Theater square districts on higher difficulty I almost never get a big adjacency bonus (since I rarely have wonders) for when they're built and later upgrade it to +1 or +2 from neighboring districts. I've also had starts with no mountains or rain forest anywhere around by your logic I shouldn't build a single campus in any of my cities because that wouldn't be a benefit?

Also, in the majority of my cities I end up with a +2 adjacency bonus for a campus, if I can get a 3, 4, or 5 great but it's pretty rare.

That being said, I certainly don't know everything and I mainly only play on emperor but I can beat emperor 100% of the time. I usually play on it because I just get frustrated on immortal and even if I win I don't enjoy it. It is more important to me that I enjoy playing a game than have bragging rights or credibility.

Since I'm not the most credible source, here is a quote from the Wiki strategy on the campus district:

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Campus_(Civ6)

Later, after the University becomes available in the Medieval Era, the Science production from Campus buildings becomes predominant. This is especially true starting in the Renaissance Era with Rationalism, which doubles the Campus building outputs. You are most likely to maintain the Rationalism policy from the moment it becomes available until very late in the game. Therefore, one may as well think of the +2 Science from Library as +4 Science and +4 Science from University as +8 Science. Together, we see that the +12 Science from specialty buildings starts to overtake adjacency bonus and city-state bonus. This puts emphasis on constructing Universities and enabling the Rationalism policy early. Both Rationalism and city-state bonuses depend on the number of Campuses. Therefore, go-wide strategy is better for Science than go-tall (as with all other resource production). Into mid-game, cities that do not sport high adjacency bonus for Campus districts should also start to construct Campuses unless you are receiving significant boosts from city-states and Great Scientists.

Great Scientist Albert Einstein doubles the Science output of all Universities (+4). This is the most overpowered Great Scientist, followed by Isaac Newton, who increases the Science output of all Universities by half (+2). Remember that the true bonus is always doubled with the Rationalism policy. Therefore, the bonuses of these two Great Scientists are massive. It is worth fighting for a Science lead, which induces a Great Scientist point lead.

[epicsimian]

@Exemplar
To be fair with you, I 100% support your statement that your production early on is going to be better spent on a domination style zerg. I see this as a design flaw in that military zerg early on is pretty much the best strategy for any win condition. When I made my point about early game expansion I was meaning through both military and settlers, if that wasn't clear before.

That being said I just wanted to address the question regarding technology progression and I got the impression this player is not yet ready for an aggressive military play style.

[Exemplar]

Originally posted by epicsimian:

I've also had starts with no mountains or rain forest anywhere around by your logic I shouldn't build a single campus in any of my cities because that wouldn't be a benefit?

Well, honestly I don't with a start like that. I take others' cities.

The rest is mostly true, though, including rationalism which is a no-brainer if aiming for a tech victory. But, here, with this I feel the goalposts have shifted in the conversation. It seems you've made this about topping-out mass science to aim to fill the entire tree, and that is (only) for tech victory. The question, which I understood we were discussing, "Why is the AI more technologically advanced militarily than I am?", is, well, ... the game is half-over once one is to the point of the enlightenment, and if you're spending all this time plopping sub-optimal campuses expressly aiming for rationalism because that will make it all make sense, you've been dead in the water for over 200 turns. I can't say you're "wrong" because you'll "eventually get there", but how many times are we going to make a person have to restart because he/she got mad rushed and lost 3 cities before he/she started getting rationalism bonus from 4 sub-optimal early campuses?

The answer, to me, only one that makes sense, is helping people understand "plateaus".

[epicsimian]

Again I disagree, to me the early game is all about set up for the late game. Though part of that is just accepting that you're going to be behind on civics and techs until your initial work starts to take fruition.

Once all your initial labor starts to snowball is when you overtake the AI and start progressing like crazy.

I guess if you are on an even playing field or have advantages over the AI you can capitalize on it right away, so maybe the strategy is a little different on prince and below.

I'll reiterate too that in my personal games I'm focused on expansion early on so I don't start building a ton of districts until closer to mid game which the wiki references. So that early game strategy around districts is kind of a void for me.

But I think having a campus in every city around the medieval era is a perfectly viable strategy that will win you the game and I could certainly be wrong, but the wiki seems to agree with that logic at least.

In any case it's hard to really root cause the original posters problem without knowing a lot more information. I think it's probably a multifaceted issue and they got plenty of good advice in this thread that should hopefully help them correct it.

[Exemplar]

Originally posted by epicsimian:

But I think having a campus in every city around the medieval era

I can't, possibly. My individual medieval era happens at around 900bc to 500bc, when I am hitting either military engineering or machinery.

no, I'm not talking about prince difficulty.... >.<

sigh.

[epicsimian]

Originally posted by Exemplar:

Originally posted by epicsimian:

But I think having a campus in every city around the medieval era

I can't, possibly. My individual medieval era happens at around 900bc to 500bc.

no, I'm not talking about prince difficulty.... >.<

sigh.

I didn't say you were on prince difficulty, the original poster said they're playing on difficulty 3.

There's no such thing as an individual medieval era anymore with "ages system" so I hope you're just being theatrical here.

You might be right, you may have the best build order and strategy there is. The OP is welcome to use yours I'm not going to be offended, I don't think mine is necessarily wrong but yours could certainly be more optimal.

[Exemplar]

no, there are individual eras. maybe I should use the vernacular "age". your roads improve and other stuff. there are also "world eras", but by medieval world era, I'm usually around 12 cities and pushing some relevant individual modern era tech or civic, certainly before the 3rd world era dedications.

[epicsimian]

Ok, then I will correct myself, I meant the medieval era as opposed to the medieval age. The wiki specifically states the medieval era.