Ocean/coast tiles? Are they worthless?

[kimo]

Is there any incentive to place a city on the coast ? I don't know if I'm missing something or if it's just bad since you can't build or improve these sea tiles. I feel like a coastal cities is now very week when it could turn out great in civ 5. Now that you can make a port from an inland city what advantages have a coastal one?

[Eyesun]

It can produce naval units without building a harbor first.

[Helen Carnate]

You get a free tech boost to ship building. Otherwise unless there is oil, whales or other decent stuff 3 tiles away, I wouldnt bother.

[Dray Prescot]

I think a Harbor District will let you build a trader unit as well as for the Ecomomic District, so you can get two traders from that city instead of just one. You can also improve some sea tiles and build ships, lighthouses, and certain Wonders. It depends on what kind of map/world you are playing, and if you need ships to explore/fight.

[kimo]

Originally posted by Dray Prescot:

I think a Harbor District will let you build a trader unit as well as for the Ecomomic District, so you can get two traders from that city instead of just one. You can also improve some sea tiles and build ships, lighthouses, and certain Wonders. It depends on what kind of map/world you are playing, and if you need ships to explore/fight.

yes but you can do that too with a non costal city with acces to a few sea tiles. So no huge incentive to build a pure coastal city unless you have no choice or need boats early game.

[Popcorn]

sometimes you want the one hex connecting the two large "island" chains. Makes sense then. But yes, otherwise it really comes down to what resources/wonder bonus that are in reach

[Crim]

You can improve certain sea tiles, move the worker into the water

[SamBC]

Originally posted by Talamare:

You can improve certain sea tiles, move the worker into the water

Yeah, you can improve ones with resources. That's it.

[Manic]

Unless there is some compelling reason to build on the coast, don't bother. If for geographical reasons a coast city is your best opion, such as grabbing the one iron/oil/etc resource that is nowhere near a river and the best option is to plop a cit on the coast to acquire it, or if you're playing islands and you're trying to control waterways/ocean tiles or grab some land across a narrow waterway, then go ahead. But by and large, coast tiles are gimped because ocean tiles have no value beyond their resources.

[katzenkrimis]

Originally posted by kimo:

Is there any incentive to place a city on the coast ?

Now that you can make a port from an inland city what advantages have a coastal one?

Because coastal cities offer the best protection. The AI has no idea how to handle you. Because you are half land, half sea. The AI is too dumb to use a balanced army, with a balanced attack, so they are guaranteed to lose if they attack you.

They can't surround your city with lands units.

Sure, we've seen them try. And we laugh hysterically, as half of their army ends up in the ocean.

If their army is land focused, they are toast. You'll pound their units with your ships. Their entire army will die.

If they are a sea-focused Civ, well, it's game over for them because you rule the seas. That's all you care about. Sea domination. Make it count.

The only thing you need to worry about as a coastal player are subs and flight. Make sure to get submarines fast. Make sure to get planes fast. Because you'll need to get those planes on carriers for protection.

Although, in this game's current state, I still haven't seen an enemy plane. The AI is broken.

But build them anyway. When they fix the game, you'll need to be ready.

[DaBo81]

How useful is the sea in real life though? Yeah, you can fish the waters and you can trade across it but you can't build on it or exploit it in the same way that you can exploit land so it makes sense that the tiles aren't very useful.
That said, I do think coastal cities should get some buffs in future expansions/patches, including:
1) Map script to include lots of fish and crab along coastal waters - perhaps bring back atolls or other sea bonus tiles?
2) Harbors to get major adjacency bonuses from the city centre in the same way that commercial districts get major adjancency bonuses from being next to the harbor - this would give an incentive to form these districts into triangles.
3) Coastal cities to have access to some upgrades such as desalination plant to make them more worthwhile. Maybe a tourist quarter/marina/aquarium too to reflect that coastal cities are often popular tourist destinations.
4) Builders to get an aquafarm coastal improvement in the later stages of the game to improve yeilds - probably should be some restrictions on the placement of these to stop the map looking silly.

With the game in its current state, the incentive to build coastal cities outside of the one tech boost is simply number of cities.

[The Empty Lord]

I wholly agree the coast feels under utilizied, especially given how sea-faring and aquaculture has shaped much of human history.

I created a suggestion thread myself, here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/312265672105980693/, with proposes for different types of ocean tiles (e.g. polar, rough seas, estuaries, reefs); the ability to farm coast tiles (even without specific resources in them); the ability to trawl ocean resources outside your territory; canals, dams and bridges; turning the lighthouse into a tile improvement instead of a building; etc.

Originally posted by DaBo81:

How useful is the sea in real life though? Yeah, you can fish the waters and you can trade across it but you can't build on it or exploit it in the same way that you can exploit land so it makes sense that the tiles aren't very useful.

You're kidding, right? Firstly, fishing is huge. There's also aquaculture (which China alone has been doing for thousands of years, let alone other civs); trawling (England and it's iconic "Doggers" started doing it in around the 14th century); canals to connect multiple oceans together (Panama, for example); floating cities like Venice, Amsterdam, etc (they could have the ability to build districts on coastal tiles); dams (those things that allow the Netherlands to exist); Tidal Power/Tidal Barrages/Dams (in-game this would be the ability to gain production via water tiles, but could also function as naval walls); oil rigs are already in-game, and in real life we have rigging for plenty of other purposes. If rivers occupied hexes rather than being only a visual detail between hexes, then there'd be a crap tonne you could add for rivers too.

I'm surprised they didn't add cruise ships for tourism.

[kimo]

@katzenkrimis
hehe, I didn't think of that, but let's put it in the bug list rather than in the feature :)

@DaBo81

well, civilization look nothing like real life so... And I think yes, some of the solution you propose are okay. In Civ 5, a costal sea could be great with the right wonders, religion perks and buildings.

@The Empty lord
some greats ideas in your post, Civ was never much about sea. I don't sea a full expansion, but could be a good way to mix things a little bit.

[Ketamarine]

I think they completely missed the boat on developing ocean resources in this game.
Just finished a game as Victoria and my capital stalled out at around level 18 (other cities in the 22-25 range) as you can't get any food from non-resource ocean tiles.

Screenshot of my London (yes, I could have maxe out food on the limited land tiles, but used them for districts and mines)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=793888639


In Civ 5, coastal cities could be MASSIVE with the late game tech giving more food from regular ocean tiles.

I think that this is a glaring error in terms of realism - literally all of the biggest cities in the world are on or within a 50 km of the ocean (or other huge body of water like the great lakes). There is basically unlimited food in there once you have proper fishing boats!

[**ⓈHAⓇK**]

Originally posted by Ketamarine:

I think they completely missed the boat on developing ocean resources in this game.
Just finished a game as Victoria and my capital stalled out at around level 18 (other cities in the 22-25 range) as you can't get any food from non-resource ocean tiles.

Screenshot of my London (yes, I could have maxe out food on the limited land tiles, but used them for districts and mines)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=793888639


In Civ 5, coastal cities could be MASSIVE with the late game tech giving more food from regular ocean tiles.

I think that this is a glaring error in terms of realism - literally all of the biggest cities in the world are on or within a 50 km of the ocean (or other huge body of water like the great lakes). There is basically unlimited food in there once you have proper fishing boats!

Indeed they are hard to feed with the need for districts. I now put a couple on the coast but stay 1-2 tiles back now so as to allow for a better growth.

Not only is my Capital stallled here in this image but a city I founded to snatch part of Pedros landmass even suffered until I was able to splurge and buy up a bunch of land on his island.
:) He denounced me the entire game for having to many great people and I loved his line

"our finest engineers and architects would be happier in a place where they could grow. Brazil, for instance."

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=786634421

This was my first game so I placed most of my cities on the coast here. Lesson Learned