navys are truly pointless

[HaziTru]

One thing I loved about older civ games is how important navy's were. They really screwed navy's over when they allowed regular units to embark. I used to love having to carry my units over in ships it brought so much realism and depth to the game. I feel like that Mechanic should be brought back. If not then at least land units shouldn't be able to travel into deep ocean. Naval combat isn't worth it either you could just pick off a enemy ship with a archer or ranged unit hanging out on the coast. No need to create a navy, like ever. Pretty much just a waste of production and money that could've been spent of a land unit or building.

[GoldenTalon]

Agreed. AI in Civ IV actually used their navy and pulled off surprise attacks.

[HaziTru]

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

Agreed. AI in Civ IV actually used their navy and pulled off surprise attacks.

It won't get them far, all I have to do it move 2 archers over to take them out. Pretty much easy xp.

[jonnin]

navy is awesome if the map supports it.
why?
aircraft carriers!
Bombarding coastal towns is also useful but the main combat use is using planes to clear out ground troops so your forces can focus on their main job. 2 or 3 carriers is usually enough if only you have aircraft.

I am not against your idea but this version, losing a unit is a big deal, so troop transports seem like a high risk if the other guy has ships around (or long range weapons, aircraft, whatever can sink them).

Embarked invasion is high risk too. You can't fight back, you just die if the enemy finds your group.

[HaziTru]

Originally posted by jonnin:

navy is awesome if the map supports it.
why?
aircraft carriers!
Bombarding coastal towns is also useful but the main combat use is using planes to clear out ground troops so your forces can focus on their main job. 2 or 3 carriers is usually enough if only you have aircraft.

I am not against your idea but this version, losing a unit is a big deal, so troop transports seem like a high risk if the other guy has ships around (or long range weapons, aircraft, whatever can sink them).

Embarked invasion is high risk too. You can't fight back, you just die if the enemy finds your group.

I mean they're cool but they're extremely late game. By that time you already airplanes, nukes and death robots. I'd rather send a death robot than a aircraft carrier. What about early/mid game?

As far as transport goes you'd have to be smart and send a couple missle ships along with your transport, don't just send a transport ship alone so all your units get destroyed.

[jonnin]

The first airplanes are late mid-game.
Mid game you can bombard coastal towns and sink enemy swimmers or make plunder units to hit barb camps & enemy sites. But generally, apart from the carriers and raiders, no, there isnt much point for most maps. If you have enough ocean/islands, a few boats becomes wise for the whole game, to explore and defend and such.

[HaziTru]

Originally posted by jonnin:

The first airplanes are late mid-game.
Mid game you can bombard coastal towns and sink enemy swimmers or make plunder units to hit barb camps & enemy sites. But generally, apart from the carriers and raiders, no, there isnt much point for most maps. If you have enough ocean/islands, a few boats becomes wise for the whole game, to explore and defend and such.

Aircraft comes around the same time if not before aircraft carriers. But yeah I'll create one naval unit to scout the seas that's about it.

[Stormwinds]

The problem is that naval units have much less variety than land units and come online later than their land counterparts. Galleys are great, but then the next naval unit you can unlock is the Quadrireme, which requires a late Classical Era tech, has the same ranged strength as an archer but with 1 less range, and is only capable of moving in shallow water.

After that, you get the Caravel, which has the same melee strength as a Musketman but can't use Battering Rams or Siege Towers, and the Frigate, which is basically a better Bombard. Around this time, you unlock the Privateer, which is basically worthless in combat and is only good for pillaging coastal tiles, obtaining tribal villages, and clearing barb camps. At this point we've skipped the Swordsman, Man-At-Arms, Crossbowman, Trebuchet, Battering Ram, and Siege Tower.

Naval units only have 3 class lines compared to the 6-8 that land units have (Melee, Anti-Cav, Heavy Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Ranged, Bombard, Recon, and Support). In addition to this, aside from the occasional reef, there's no rough terrain that impedes or slows down naval units or adds a layer of complexity to combat. On land, you have rivers, hills, forests and rainforests, marshes, floodplains, and mountains.

[gdshore]

Stormwinds (great name by the way) points are accurate to a point, if you are playing on an archepelligo world navies are quite efficent. In particular when combined with the Venetian Arsenal, and getting two units for one build (must build not buy). Using the Quadrireme vessel in concert with archers and swordsmen can take an early era city down quickly (classical - medieval) and they soak up damage that otherwise hits your land troops. My experience is that the AI's will shoot at the vessels before the land units. The privateer if in sufficient numbers can take down battleships. I mostly use them to pillage coastal districts, farms,mines an such. Reducing the economics of a city assists in hammering a city flat.

[asnjas19]

No thanks to transports. What a pita having to load and unload. Its only gets worse when there was a body of water and you didnt have a city nearby to construct ships. A huge no ty.

Navys are fine. They dont dominate on pangea maps ok. On naval maps you dont even need land units once you get frigates, caravels and their future upgrades. On balanced maps you can shred a landing force before they even get to disembark if you play it right.

They get more movement.
I dont see what the problem is.