Crossbowman power spike

[Bright Lights]

Emperor-Immortal player here. I've noticed in quite a few games how powerful the archer-to-crossbowman power spike is, and I was wondering, does anyone else feel like it's a bit too powerful? Like, crossbowmen are fine when against units of their period, but nearly every game I play, early wars are just on a timer until the AI starts spamming out crossbowmen because they went straight for it. Because once they get them, it's near impossible to push without taking obscene casualties.
Kind of hoping they add an intermediary unit like Civ V did, with the composite bowmen, because at the moment it just makes me want to avoid any early war altogether.

[Maya-Neko]

Their biggest weakness are cavalry units as they've a very low meele strength (even lower than the Horseman) and they can't really outrange cavalry due to their high mobility. And the inability of the AI to properly protect their ranged units from cavalry makes it even easier to outplay them.

And if you don't have a source of horses or iron, then beeline to crossbowman yourself, as a player should normally have the advantage in mirror battles.

[The Bored Chairman]

I think they're fine, I usually end up researching Coursers before Crossbows anyway, simply because it's en route to Buttresses (which gives me Dams for that sweet adjacency buff with my Industrial Zones).

Yeah, the AI WILL spam ranged units when on the defensive, it's completely natural, as they are a fantastic defensive unit. I find that it's best to just beeline Coursers if you're planning on making war in the Medieval era and to assault enemy walls/cities with Melee+support units instead of Catapults, since they have no Medieval upgrade.

It's supposed to be harder to attack than defend. Sometimes, you'll run into a situation where an assault is just not feasible. I recommend just pillaging everything you can get your hands on when conquering is too much of a hassle.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

I recommend just pillaging everything you can get your hands on when conquering is too much of a hassle.

Which, again, Coursers :)

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

While cavalry are the natural counter to ranged units, crossbowmen usually show up quite a bit before knights do, and even longer before coursers (even though that's completely backwards historically, as with a lot of civ tech)

Even horsemen will serve again crossbowmen if you can split them up and draw them away from static defenses. You do probably want to have two horsemen per crossbowman, though.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

I recommend just pillaging everything you can get your hands on when conquering is too much of a hassle.

Which, again, Coursers :)

Fo sho. Had a game where China declared war on Sumeria (my ally) and I just spent the entire war stealing his stuff with my Light Cav, ended up getting the Pillager promotion, it was sooo good.

Best part was no grievances. All that free stuff, no repercussions.

Course, I had to dismantle his army first, but that's way easier with the Tunnel-visioning AI, just pick off his troops while he mindlessly charges towards his objective.

[god of being bad at everything]

the new april update 2021 observing from what i see makes the crossbowmen much less weaker indirectly with the trebuchet taking their role for city sieging and the man at arms with 45 combat strength being able to put up some fight unlike the weak swordsmen

[god of being bad at everything]

of course we still have to see the tech tree to confirm

[god of being bad at everything]

anyways the crossbowmen power spike makes them the center of the medieval era essentially they are the backbone of any defense or offense in the medieval era with the weak catapult being useless

[god of being bad at everything]

not to mention the strategy for defense for me usually is DONT CHOP ALL JUNGLES because they help your defense by slowing the enemy which helps crossbowmen even if they give the enemy defense bonuses

[god of being bad at everything]

just spam crossbowmen place them on top of districts and you should be fine especially with the promotion that gives you 10 combat strength giving you the ability to challenge musketmen

[gdshore]

I have always had a problem with the crossbow, (I use them very effectively in game) it is short ranged, 50 m. to 100 m. max. The longbow (at 40-45 kilo to 50-55 kilo draw) can range out to 300 m. , at 70-80 kilo in static tests indications were that ranges of 400 to 450 m. were possible. (bows found on the Mary Rose may have been 140 lbs. {65-7- kilo} ) The developers should have gone from archer to longbow. The crossbow has one big advantage over the longbow training time, to become accurate with crossbow 3 to 4 months, same level accuracy with longbow, 3 to 5 years.

[Minuit]

Crossbowmen power strike is real and I also noticed OP biplanes like never before. Rushing those two units became mandatory.

Edit: I found a topic on biplanes being OP after a patch in 2019. Mb.

[jonnin]

they take you down a path away from all the other units for a while and are 'mostly' a defense or support (for the stuff you need to go down the other paths for) unit. So rushing them is strong but defensive, while trying to get them alongside their peer units is a lot of science and expensive upgrades or production time to assemble it all.

Its probably fine; the feel like the go-to fix for non-militaristic players to have some defenses in the early mid-game and they can't stop a serious attack on a city, just help deter barbs or pillagers.

Depends on how you see the game balance thing. An average player on normal, or what someone who knows every trick can do with them. They can certainly be used to do some damage by higher level players.

[jonnin]

Originally posted by gdshore:

I have always had a problem with the crossbow, (I use them very effectively in game) it is short ranged, 50 m. to 100 m. max. The longbow (at 40-45 kilo to 50-55 kilo draw) can range out to 300 m. , at 70-80 kilo in static tests indications were that ranges of 400 to 450 m. were possible. (bows found on the Mary Rose may have been 140 lbs. {65-7- kilo} ) The developers should have gone from archer to longbow. The crossbow has one big advantage over the longbow training time, to become accurate with crossbow 3 to 4 months, same level accuracy with longbow, 3 to 5 years.

I am not sure that matters too much. The typical use of either type is just to fire as many as you have as fast as you can in the general direction of the 1000s of bad guys coming your way, not to pick apples off a kids head :)
both of them solved the problem of knights/heavy armor.

[Cazuel]

Originally posted by Bright Lights:

Like, crossbowmen are fine when against units of their period, but nearly every game I play, early wars are just on a timer until the AI starts spamming out crossbowmen because they went straight for it. Because once they get them, it's near impossible to push without taking obscene casualties.

So I'm playing with Nubia right now (Deity) and I have these insanely good Archers, all lvl 4 and above. But Poundmaker has this one f*cking lvl. 1 Crossbowman garrisoned in his last city and he actually manages to one-hit each one of them. It's extremely frustrating, and I do agree, that is a bit too unbalanced.