Late Game Army/Navy requires too much Strategic Resources

[Crim]

1 per turn per Unit is way too much Strategic Resources.

You can barely support any late game Army to take cities, if you even try your costs can easily become 20-30 per turn.

There is also no way to reduce this amount and this amount is already absolutely absurd.
An Uranium and Oil resource only generates 3 per turn and Aluminum is only 2 per turn.

Can we see it reduced to maybe 0.5 per unit?
Then introduce another discount like Seaports provide Ships created in this City another 20% discount per turn discount. Airports do the same for Airplanes, and Military Academy for Units

Maybe even introduce a Policy card for another 20% for each unit type.
Obviously make this flat additions and don't add an excess amount of modifiers that would make it reach 0%

It honestly feels like late game Wars were not properly tested. Late game cities can easily reach over 120 Defenses, and they can easily be surrounded by Encampments. You NEED a large force to combat these defenses + the enemy forces, except the game makes it nearly impossible.

There is a grand total of 1 end game unit that doesn't require resources per turn...

[Lemurian1972]

You can't reduce the upkeep cost on a unit, but there are a ton of easy ways to boost your output of oil. Not counting incidental wells around my empire, I almost always manage to find and settle an island or polar city that has 2-3 oil sites. If I move the military governor there, and implement the policy that boosts oil and aluminum, that's pretty easily 15 oil/turn from one city.

Lastly, I dunno what kind of navies you think you need, but I've found on most maps 6-12 ships is more than enough, even in an archipelago designed for naval combat. If you're running around with a ton of single ships instead of upgrading to fleets and armadas as soon as they're available, you kind of deserve what you get imho.

[Quantum Delpha]

If you can't support a huge navy because costs are too high across the board, neither can your opponent. Thus, you do not require a huge navy.

[Maya-Neko]

For what do you even need like 20-30 ships? Sounds like you want to go into a war against 5 Civs.

[Crim]

So, I did some checking, it seems its not just limited to ships. Most late game units require resources per turn. End Game Melee, Cavalry, Siege, Planes. I think I need to recreate this thread to cover all end game units.

Really, you start noticing a few rare exceptions among end game units that inexplicably doesn't use resources per turn.

[Crim]

Late Game Army/Navy requires too much Strategic Resources

1 per turn per Unit is way too much Strategic Resources.

You can barely support any late game Army to take cities, if you even try your costs can easily become 20-30 per turn.

There is also no way to reduce this amount and this amount is already absolutely absurd.
An Uranium and Oil resource only generates 3 per turn and Aluminum is only 2 per turn.

Can we see it reduced to maybe 0.5 per unit?
Then introduce another discount like Seaports provide Ships created in this City another 20% discount per turn discount. Airports do the same for Airplanes, and Military Academy for Units

Maybe even introduce a Policy card for another 20% for each unit type.
Obviously make this flat additions and don't add an excess amount of modifiers that would make it reach 0%

It honestly feels like late game Wars were not properly tested. Late game cities can easily reach over 120 Defenses, and they can easily be surrounded by Encampments. You NEED a large force to combat these defenses + the enemy forces, except the game makes it nearly impossible.

There is a grand total of 1 end game unit that doesn't require resources per turn...


Also, I'm going to be honest...
Giant Death Robot is funny and awesome the first time you play with him, but really boring every subsequent times.

You go from having a diverse cast of characters and optimizing your tactics for each one to "gee whiz I hope I can afford the 3 Uranium per turn and I hope that 1 GDR is enough"

[Lemurian1972]

So what's your point? You've essentially been given what you asked for it just happens on the supply side not the demand side.

As I said, it is a manageable problem. Even when troops are upgraded to full Armies/Armadas, they still only cost 1 unit/turn.

I've played Civ VI with and without the accumulating resource system, and the accumulating system is honestly better. The strategy and planning is more interesting, If you don't discover resources inside your borders, you have to go get them, either by exploration or war. This is how the real world works as well.


From your duplicate thread-

Originally posted by Talamare:

It honestly feels like late game Wars were not properly tested. Late game cities can easily reach over 120 Defenses, and they can easily be surrounded by Encampments. You NEED a large force to combat these defenses + the enemy forces, except the game makes it nearly impossible.

This is all patently untrue. 2 Rocket Launcher Armies (the modern siege unit) can take down a city in a few turns. A couple Bombers or Jet Bombers are strong too (and those require Aluminum not Oil)

So a couple units that do siege damage and then 1 unit to swoop in and take the city. If you really feel the need to besiege a city first, that's still only a couple more units. Depending on how many cities you want to attack at the same time, it's almost always less than 10 resource/turn to maintain, and that's not difficult to achieve.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Lemurian1972:

So what's your point? You've essentially been given what you asked for it just happens on the supply side not the demand side.

As I said, it is a manageable problem. Even when troops are upgraded to full Armies/Armadas, they still only cost 1 unit/turn.

I've played Civ VI with and without the accumulating resource system, and the accumulating system is honestly better. The strategy and planning is more interesting, If you don't discover resources inside your borders, you have to go get them, either by exploration or war. This is how the real world works as well.


From your duplicate thread-

Originally posted by Talamare:

It honestly feels like late game Wars were not properly tested. Late game cities can easily reach over 120 Defenses, and they can easily be surrounded by Encampments. You NEED a large force to combat these defenses + the enemy forces, except the game makes it nearly impossible.

This is all patently untrue. 2 Rocket Launcher Armies (the modern siege unit) can take down a city in a few turns. A couple Bombers or Jet Bombers are strong too (and those require Aluminum not Oil)

So a couple units that do siege damage and then 1 unit to swoop in and take the city. If you really feel the need to besiege a city first, that's still only a couple more units. Depending on how many cities you want to attack at the same time, it's almost always less than 10 resource/turn to maintain, and that's not difficult to achieve.

Bombers are hard countered by SAM that doesn't have a cost per turn

Rocket Artillery doesn't have special rules against Cities, it follows the standard game rules for combat in that the offensive value is compared to the defensive values. Which means what you're saying is only relevant if you have a tech lead against enemies.

If you're on par with your enemy, then City stats are equal to the units you're using. Meaning that Rocket Artillery only does 'okay' damage against Cities. Not to mention the need to line them up properly without having your opponents equivalent army actively attacking you back.

Also, I'm not going to respond on this thread anymore, but only on https://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/2787118187312907949/

[Lemurian1972]

Originally posted by Talamare:

Also, I'm not going to respond on this thread anymore, but only on https://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/2787118187312907949/

You'll be back. Don't be surprised if the mods lock/merge it with this one.

[Maya-Neko]

Do you fight against the AI? If yes, then 2 rocket artillery+drones (or some bombers will do the same as well, if you can reach the enemy), 1 tank and 1-2 machine guns are more than enough to steamroll all AIs without them even reacting to you properly. The AI can't really handle siege units with an attack range of 3+.

Same goes for naval units. 2 cruisers, 1-2 destroyers and 1-2 submarines are normally more than enough to keep AI navies busy.

And i feel late game quite balanced. The units you're getting there are quite overpowered in terms of damage and abilities, so making them a littlebit special by limiting the amount of them per game is definitely better than allowing to mass produce it without even thinking about ressource management.

And don't forget the streets and railroads everywhere. Because of these you've propably taken over half a civ before they're even able to fully mobilize their full military against you.

And war doesn't get more fun, just because you throw twice as many units at the enemy, as they then just defends themselves with twice as much units as well. The only thing that happens here is to slow down war and making a domination victory way more tedious.

And if you're fighting against humans, then try to guess which problem they're facing at the time, you struggle to get your military into the modern ages.

[Crim]

I play against both, and yea against the AI, often times they do so many stupid moves that you can easily roll them with a small force.

The per turn restriction is pretty surprising tho, since before the late game you can field a ton of units, but in the late game you're limited to just a few when your empire is massive.

[gimmethegepgun]

Be aware that though Corps and Armies consist of multiple units stuck together they have the same maintenance as a regular unit.
So think big!

[Crim]

Early game when you only have a few cities, feel free to own 20 archers

Late game when you have 40 cities, make sure you only use like 5 units to defend them all

We should make a mod that makes every strategic unit require per turn. Then gain Xbows don't require strategics, so I doubt the early game would change much...
We could make an argument that Xbows should require a strategic, but that's a topic for a different thread.

[MEAT IS ON THE TABLE]

I agree, there should be a few more ways to get strategic resources/reduce upkeep.

Yes you can easily take cities with 2 artillery corps with drones but a whole empire should be able to field more than that. Many games (unless you have basically already won) it can be difficult to get half decent amounts of oil or aluminium, it just feels to limiting in a bad way.

I don't need people to explain how to get them, I know how by other means via trade or CS.

[dcain3456]

This is why you build fleets and armadas.

[Oddible]

Play Civ IV with its stacks of doom if you want to overwhelm with numbers. Or learn tactical play and build what you need. If you have a huge navy you can grab up all those oil resources in random ocean squares - don't want to grab those? Then you don't need a huge navy :) Honestly this thread seems to be arguing for it to be a different game - all the things you're complaining about have a strategy and set of tactics to counter. If you don't feel like learning or using those - play a different game rather than try to change this game into something it isn't. Honestly load up Civ IV, many consider it the pinnacle of Civ with all expansions and you get to do your massive stacks of doom willy nilly and overwhelm with numbers on low still level games and have a BLAST!