'Research' alliance

[JEELEN]

I have a research alliance with Chandragupta and an economic allaince with Cleopatra. I don't have a military alliance with anybody. Within the last 10 turns I have declared war automatically on Mongolia and Japan, because they DOWed India.

Eh, what's up, game? Confused much?

[Demystificator]

Alliance will make you join war, not matter the type of alliance.

So if you have a scientific alliance with Cleopatra and someones declares war to her, you're into that war automatically.

The type of alliance change the bonus you earn from that alliance but not the way it works.

Military Alliance gives bonus in battle when you share an opponent while the Scientific Alliance gives bonus to Science production.

It's a thing to remember when you declare war. Check if AIs has allies or you could go into war against the rest of the world.
Also getting allies may sometimes prevent from being attacked as AIs don't want to get too much in trouble.

Also, note that your ally can make peace with your common ennemy ; it won't automatically end war for you ! The same way, you can peace out without waiting for your ally to agree. There won't be any diplomatic penalty if you "let down" your ally.

[aleman12]

Yeah you join automaticly but a little bit of warrning would be nice; when it happens!

[JEELEN]

It was. Not the point though.

Originally posted by Demystificator:

Alliance will make you join war, not matter the type of alliance.

That's kind of my point... But that's not what 'research alliance' or 'economic alliance' means. If I wanted a military alliance, I would have gotten one.

[SamBC]

All alliances have the same impact on diplomacy/war. The type of alliance affects the other bonuses you get.

[sercera]

Yeah I've noticed you can't take such terms too literally, or else you will be really dissatisfied with the game.
Another example is when an opponent declares war on one of your pet/puppet city states. In the real world, if that happened, of course you'd be able to justifiably retaliate immediately. However, in the game if you are declared friends with the civ that's attacking your city state (or allied, of course) you can't declare war on them.
TLDR - it's just a game and there are certain aspects of it which will necessarily go against real-world applications or even reality itself - all in order to provide gameplay with certain rules and balance, etc.

[Demystificator]

Originally posted by sercera:

Another example is when an opponent declares war on one of your pet/puppet city states. In the real world, if that happened, of course you'd be able to justifiably retaliate immediately. However, in the game if you are declared friends with the civ that's attacking your city state (or allied, of course) you can't declare war on them.

Well, I don't any war between 2 friendly empires because of such thing...

Alliance is litteraly an alliance... I don't see what's wrong with the word.

When the US invaded Afghanistan, weren't the Europe with them even if they had few reasons to go ?
And you think France had a military alliance with Serbia in 1914 ?


Gamewise :
Just imagine this situation. You have a scientific or commercial alliance with a civ. Someone declares war to you and start invading your cities and your ally would be "nope, I'm just here for the science/money"... Wouldn't you get frustated that you'd to only pick military alliances and let down the rest, just in case of being attacked ?

[sercera]

Demystificator, I see what you're saying.
Maybe I should clarify my own statement:
I think the addition of the words "economic" or "scientific" to "alliance" is what's causing the problem. I admit I have no diplomatic blood in my lines, so maybe I'm just confusing certain terms - however, when the game added the "economic-" etc, terms to "alliance" - it certainly connotes a separate meaning. Maybe that's just a mis-informed opinion? Maybe it would be better to say that such things as "economic alliance" or "scientific alliance" aren't really necessary in the real world diplomacy - actually I don't even know that, so that probably isn't the right thing to say.

One way to make my point: It would be easier to understand if only "Defensive Pacts" and "military alliances" were allowed to make war declarations automatic. Military alliances of course would trigger with any sort of war, while Defensive Pacts would only trigger if one of the members was declared war upon. I suppose "Joint War" is another way, but that's of course only a very specific use of war "alliances"

Does that make any sense?

[Demystificator]

Okay, I got your point here.

[JEELEN]

Anywho... I now have a military 'military alliance.' Plus a mlilitary 'research alliance.' ;)

If only people would use words like a normal person...