The Maya Seem..Terrible

[Eguzky]

I mean, you have to build your cities within 6 hexes of your capital for a 10% bonus..or suffer a -15% penalty
That's way too harsh. The Maya get maybe 5 cities if you're insanely lucky with resource placement. Because if there's too few resources within sight of your capital, then you either waste time not settling for 20 turns, or just eat the -15% penalty when you expand further than 6 hexes from your capital.

So if the terrain is not 100% in your favor as a gift from the RNG gods (no tundra, desert, or ocean, to cut down on unusable land) then you're just slowly losing. Every other civ will just expand like normal, have more cities, and overrun you with armies, culture, or whatever they want.

[Urist]

A wide empire isnt always necessary to win, (many exemple of players winning deity with only one city)

[Eguzky]

Originally posted by Epic:

A wide empire isnt always necessary to win, (many exemple of players winning deity with only one city)

True but if you're building extra cities, you need a LARGE amount of resources around the capital to make it worthwhile at all.

Like, why build 2-4 cities within 6 tiles of your capital, if they are not reach resources you did not have before?
And why build further away, when you now get -15% to all yields?

The playstyle looks more like forced solo build unless you get insanely lucky.

[Nem]

I've been playing the maya A LOT recently and posted a write up of my impressions earlier today. Basically, if you don't get an absolutely PERFECT start, then you aren't going anywhere on deity. Instant loss.

[🅺🅴🆁🅸🆅🅴🅽]

Looks fine to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS7uRlbgmOI

[Casius]

I agree that something must be changed. I tried the Maya yesterday and managed to squeeze 5 cities in 6 tile range. 2 of which I would not have build otherwise.

A possible solution would be to increase the bonus yield you get and keep the penalty. I like that it pretty much forces you to play tall, which is a style I have missed from past Civilizations.

[jonnin]

the penalty/bonus city ring thing is not what is making it harsh. Its the need to make 2-3 times the usual number of builders so you can make farms. The lost production there and delayed start caused by no production capacity in 2 pop cities until you get the builders made which you can't because production is far worse in the startup. There is some luck there in having tiles you can drop a city on that gives +3 production to the core. But if you go for those optimal placement is out the window and its 5-6 cities again. I'm basically having to drop cities on production luxury nodes to get a luxury and production at all, to be able to get any kind of momentum at all. And about 2/3 of my starts have been in rainforest that take even more builder charges to clear the bad tiles. I don't need more food: I need production and housing. I need to be on hills and farmland.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by jonnin:

And about 2/3 of my starts have been in rainforest that take even more builder charges to clear the bad tiles.

Chopping rainforest more than pays for the builder charges with the production it gives.

[jonnin]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by jonnin:

And about 2/3 of my starts have been in rainforest that take even more builder charges to clear the bad tiles.

Chopping rainforest more than pays for the builder charges with the production it gives.

Yes, and the food component also overpopulates mayan cities past the 2-cap as well. The edge of RF is actually a great place for her to be. The middle of one... not so much; I am finding that by the time I have the clearing tech & a builder to use it, I am already behind from slogging thru the movement penalty etc.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by jonnin:

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Chopping rainforest more than pays for the builder charges with the production it gives.

Yes, and the food component also overpopulates mayan cities past the 2-cap as well.

So? The only penalty from a lack of housing is slowed/stopped growth, which is irrelevant to you as you already have the growth. More pops sooner is better.

[Charlemagne]

I think the main problem with the Maya is their over-dependence on plantations. Spawn near a lot of them- Power! Spawn in a so-so area with no plantation in sight- Doom.

[SPC_UK]

You can get up to 12 cities within 6 tiles of the capital, obviously you're probably not going to be able to place them all due to terrain or city states.
Cities further away still give 85% of all yields and you can soon get that back with good district placement.

[jonnin]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by jonnin:

Yes, and the food component also overpopulates mayan cities past the 2-cap as well.

So? The only penalty from a lack of housing is slowed/stopped growth, which is irrelevant to you as you already have the growth. More pops sooner is better.

Its a cycle. Slowed/stopped growth (and it stops, right at 2 population) means very low production. Production means no builders. No builders means no farms. No farms means no housing or growth. No production means no granary either. And the benefits of the faction vs the exceedingly delayed start are not giving much. And making farms early means no mines, horses, etc so your military lags behind as well -- you have swords but no mine, you have light cal but no horse. Basically you have to work 2-3 times harder than normal for an average startup and all that work gets you very little for all the trouble. Compare to the other new faction that can steamroll his 4 neighbors in the first era and have 4 capitol quality cities in the time that maya has like 3 farms and 2 cities, one of them with a production of like 2 and a population of 2 for the next many turns.

If you can get a normal start, sure, you can have massive population and a sweet setup. If there were no barbs or AI club wielding idiots, that is. Alas...
The only half decent mayan games I have had so far were by making her full military conquest on turn 1 and capturing my neighbors in a bum rush to get the time needed to build up to normal.

[Delta_BOSS]

Originally posted by Epic:

A wide empire isnt always necessary to win, (many exemple of players winning deity with only one city)

what's the use of playing this game if not building a country or empire of at least 10 cities?

[Enigmatic]

india from civ 5 2.0 lol

[Charlemagne]

Originally posted by jonnin:

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

So? The only penalty from a lack of housing is slowed/stopped growth, which is irrelevant to you as you already have the growth. More pops sooner is better.

Its a cycle. Slowed/stopped growth (and it stops, right at 2 population) means very low production. Production means no builders. No builders means no farms. No farms means no housing or growth. No production means no granary either. And the benefits of the faction vs the exceedingly delayed start are not giving much. And making farms early means no mines, horses, etc so your military lags behind as well -- you have swords but no mine, you have light cal but no horse. Basically you have to work 2-3 times harder than normal for an average startup and all that work gets you very little for all the trouble. Compare to the other new faction that can steamroll his 4 neighbors in the first era and have 4 capitol quality cities in the time that maya has like 3 farms and 2 cities, one of them with a production of like 2 and a population of 2 for the next many turns.

If you can get a normal start, sure, you can have massive population and a sweet setup. If there were no barbs or AI club wielding idiots, that is. Alas...
The only half decent mayan games I have had so far were by making her full military conquest on turn 1 and capturing my neighbors in a bum rush to get the time needed to build up to normal.

Yes, good points. The thing is, if you concentrate on Maya's peculiarities in the early game, it is very slow growth and productivity. If you don't, there is nothing else to compensate and what's the point of playing Maya then. I love the faction but almost every game they seem to get bogged down.