Cultural Victory (need help)

[SgtAntolak]

Im hella confused. I have 34 tourism and 70ish culture yet im losing to f'ing japan with only 20 tourism and 30 culture. How is that possible and how can i fix it.

[Prometheus]

The tourism you need to win is not "more than the other guy", but more compared to the objective, which may or may not be the same for both of you.

The whole victory type is convulted, and you can't understand the numbers, before you dig into the mechanics. Luckily, someone has done it for us. The article is solid apart from the last example...

So for example, if I were a Democracy and another Civ was Fascist, that would be (-5 + -6) x 3 = -24% Tourism-per-turn. So I'm losing almost a quarter of my Tourism-per-turn from that Fascist Civ because of our Government types!

... where he uses the wrong numbers from his own table that he just introduced for his example. But you can easily spot what it should have been.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-11-16-civilization-6-culture-victory-explained-how-to-earn-foreign-tourists-domestic-tourists-and-tourism-in-civ-6-4879

[SgtAntolak]

I understand why hes winning now - he has 6 foreign and i have 3. I have read that entire article about 6 times and i still don't understand how to get more - or how japan got so many in the first place. Why does he get so much more foreign tourists when i have higher tourism and culture? Sorry im still new to the game, so ill probably ask stupid questions like this. ^

[Prometheus]

Well you could have works of art, or literature in culture districts, while he has relics in religious. That gives you the culture generation advantage, but early game relics pack a hefty tourism punch:

"4 Faith and 8 Tourism. "

[emperor_ike]

Have to tell you what I told my friend the other night: the numbers being that small means you're still way early in the game, early enough that you're worrying about nothing. Focus on building your cities, and later civics (and one particular tech) will give such big tourism numbers you'll be gaining foreign tourists in the teens per turn. Trade routes will give bonus %, opposing government types will give malus %.
If his numbers keep growing at the same rate as yours, go Borg on him. Assimilate his crap, add his distinctiveness to your own.

[SgtAntolak]

Originally posted by Prometheus:

Well you could have works of art, or literature in culture districts, while he has relics in religious. That gives you the culture generation advantage, but early game relics pack a hefty tourism punch:

"4 Faith and 8 Tourism. "

Yeah i bought everyone else's works and made tons of my own but for some reason im still lagging behind. No one else in the world has any and i got like 12.

[SgtAntolak]

Originally posted by emperorike:

Have to tell you what I told my friend the other night: the numbers being that small means you're still way early in the game, early enough that you're worrying about nothing. Focus on building your cities, and later civics (and one particular tech) will give such big tourism numbers you'll be gaining foreign tourists in the teens per turn. Trade routes will give bonus %, opposing government types will give malus %.
If his numbers keep growing at the same rate as yours, go Borg on him. Assimilate his crap, add his distinctiveness to your own.

yeah im only on round 170ish - just discovered niter

[SgtAntolak]

Okay i dont get it. Japans half way done with the culture thing even tho all my stats are doubled his, he doesnt have a single cultural district, nor any great works. He has no wonders nor natural wonders - meanwhile i have a cultural district in every city, get every great person, have +8 culture due to a natural wonder and 12 great works. On top of that i built like 6 wonders that are supposed to improve tourism and culture. How is he beating me.

[Exemplar]

Originally posted by Sylvester_Antolak:

Why does he get so much more foreign tourists when i have higher tourism and culture?

To this point, early in the game (by the mention of numbers) he "probably" got more foreign tourists faster by scouting and meeting more opponents in a sooner fashion than you did. You can't start earning foreign tourists from an opponent until you meet them. Also, perhaps he has one or more international trade route before you did, which is a % modifier to earned foreign tourist. Also open borders.

It's easy to get the numbers confused, even in that good article, between "tourism" and "foreign tourists". Your tourism is your "offensive" score, which is modified by % and the net results in foreign tourism.

Also, the word "culture" should not be in that sentence. Culture is "defense", in short, your domestic tourists. For a culture victory you want tourism. You want modifiers to tourism and tourism tile income. Then you want more tourism, whatever it takes. Culture will get you to the policies to increase tourism % and to make some tile tourism (like national parks which cost high amounts of faith points), but otherwise, culture doesn't help. Having 400 culture per turn should not make you think you're well on the way to culture victory.

[Prometheus]

Here is your cheat sheet to the cultural victory menu:

https://i.imgur.com/b4Sdf4N.jpg

So if Japan has a REALLY high domestic tourist rate, and NO ONE ELSE has, then 20 can still be better than 34, because Japan should not need to beat their own domestic tourism to win.

[Exemplar]

Originally posted by Sylvester_Antolak:

How is he beating me.

Well, hypothetically (because I can't see your game) let's say you've met 2 of 6 opponents and you have 30 tourism, you have no open borders and you have no international trade routes. Let's say he has 18ish tourism, has met 5 ot 6 opponents, has open borders with 4 and 2 international trade routes. His foreign tourists per turn is going to be about 10-15% higher than yours.

[SgtAntolak]

It must be the international trade thing cause i only got 2 traders and 1 heads to a city state. I have already met all the factions due to me playing on a small map.

Ill check that out prometheus

[Exemplar]

Remember also, if he has converted nearby opponents to his religion, or if he is intentionally running the same government as a majority of opponents, he will be getting higher percentage of foreign tourists per turn than you from those factors.

[Exemplar]

One more thing, remember culture, or specifically the number of policies you have earned (including inspirations) is your defense score. If YOUR domestic tourists is, let's say, 60, and the highest of anyone else is, let's say, 45, even if he has 18 foreign tourists, he has to work harder than you do with your, say, 15 foreign tourists, because your 15/45 is a higher percentage toward "win" than his 18/60. That's probably where most people get lost. He has to work that much harder to get the victory condition, because your domestic tourism is so high, which is why it's "defense".

[SgtAntolak]

Thanks for your help guys! Im so close to victory, just 20 more tourist needed.