Sid Meier's Civilization VI

Sid Meier's Civilization VI

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Illusion17 Dec 9, 2019 @ 9:02am
How on earth do you deal with early game loyalty?
I recently started playing this god forsaken game again after buying rise and fall and gathering storm on sale. I've had two decent games, one winning a science victory, and quitting the other because late game units can't even seem to damage cities without nukes, and only domination was enabled. I decided to try and do an early game conquest, but that seems to be literally impossible because of the loyalty mechanic. I have 2 government policies, the one granting loyalty from garrisoned units, and the one granting extra loyalty from governors. I also have a monument in both of the cities, but both rebel in less than 10 turns. Their capital city has enough defense that not even a catapult and 4 immortals can damage it more than its regeneration, and the city wasn't put under siege despite surrounding all tiles but the mountain tile it borders. It's not even like this only hurts the player either, i'm so sick of civ putting in mechanics that prevents the ai from actually being expansive. Happiness was the same way in civ 5 and I ended up disabling it using mods. In the last game I played I got more cities from rebelling Ai cities than I conquered or settled. Is there anything besides capturing their capital that can prevent these early game cities from rebelling, or is this another feature that weakens the ai and annoys the player.
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Oragepoilu Dec 9, 2019 @ 9:26am 
Governor give flat bonus. Golden age give more bonus per pop. More pop mean more loyalty too. Nearby city with more pop give more loyalty.

So try to stack pop nearby before expanding too much in a row too far, since attacking a city reduce his pop and give a malus; Place a governor in any city that have trouble with loyalty (even a level one, doesn't matter). Taking the time to grow a city (focus food) or be super agressive and take down city nearby in same time so they don't count against you but with you (might not be possible though)

Also, two similar civ (aquitain ?don't recal exact name right now) have a bonus that reduce any city loyalty around them, like the governor diplomat. be wary of them.

As for stoping the regen of a city, isn't because it's half mele and half ranged, it doesn't count as full melee when it come to block the regen ? Might be the issue.
Originally posted by illusion goddian:
How on earth do you deal with early game loyalty?
Originally posted by illusion goddian:
I decided to try and do an early game conquest, but that seems to be literally impossible because of the loyalty mechanic. I have 2 government policies, the one granting loyalty from garrisoned units, and the one granting extra loyalty from governors. I also have a monument in both of the cities, but both rebel in less than 10 turns.
Originally posted by illusion goddian:
Is there anything besides capturing their capital that can prevent these early game cities from rebelling, or is this another feature that weakens the ai and annoys the player.
If you plan to capture and keep an enemy city, you need to make sure you have enough friendly loyalty pressure on it to counter the enemy loyalty pressure from enemy cities. If the enemy is far enough away from your cities then keeping their cities might be effectively impossible. In this situation, you need to expand your territory by founding new cities near your own until your territory reaches theirs. At that point you will have some friendly pressure on their cities, and with it some hope of being able to keep control over their cities that you capture.

If you can't expand your territory to meet theirs, for example because another civ controls the space between you and your enemy, then you might have no hope of keeping enemy cities. You can try forming a cultural alliance with the intervening civ, so that at least their cities will not put pressure on your conquests, but that might not be enough.

If you have no hope of keeping a city you capture then it might be best to raze it (or, if you have patience, keep it and let it rebel, then raze it - because razing a free city has lower diplomatic penalties than razing a city you just captured from a major civ).


Originally posted by illusion goddian:
Their capital city has enough defense that not even a catapult and 4 immortals can damage it more than its regeneration,
This is a different problem, specifically you were at a tech disadvantage against your enemy. City strength is based in part on size and in part on the strongest unit that the owner has ever trained. It is best to choose enemies that are at a disadvantage against you, but if you can't then you need to bring overwhelming numbers to try to make up the difference (which may work if the disadvantage is slight, but may not if you are at a large disadvantage).

In the situation you are describing, the best you may be able to do is raze as many enemy cities as you can, pillage every tile and district, and hope to suppress your enemy's progress until you can unlock more advanced units that can actually crack the stronger cities.


Originally posted by illusion goddian:
the city wasn't put under siege despite surrounding all tiles but the mountain tile it borders.
There is a governor that can unlock a promotion that makes his city immune to siege. When you go to war you need to be prepared for that possibility by bringing enough forces to take down cities even if you cannot stop them from healing. This is critical because if your enemy has that governor then they can move him from city to city as you conquer them, effectively making all of their cities immune to siege, and if you are not prepared for that possibility then that one governor may stall your offensive.
Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
As for stoping the regen of a city, isn't because it's half mele and half ranged, it doesn't count as full melee when it come to block the regen ? Might be the issue.
Immortals have a ranged attack, but they are still melee units and still exert the standard melee zone of control.
BLACKcOPstRIPPa Dec 9, 2019 @ 8:47pm 
Domination in civ 6 should be removed from game.

In current state it is impossible unless you play on lowest difficulty.

Units late game except giant death robot can't do ♥♥♥♥, so entire armies are not needed anymore, just a couple robots and nothing else matters.

I like electricity and governers being added, world Congress etc lots of cool additions but war being so useless makes civ 6 so boring now.

Only ancient to medieval error are actually worth playing for a fight but why play if you can only okay half the game, then why start a match.

Firaxis please address these issues?
Make actual units, not just nukes and robots viable for late game aggression again please, rise and fall it was done right in gathering Storm they brought down nerf hammer hard on warlike players, making war unviable killed an x.

4x genre
Explore, Expand, Exploit , Exterminate
They removed the Exterminate with changes they made
Last edited by BLACKcOPstRIPPa; Dec 9, 2019 @ 8:49pm
Illusion17 Dec 10, 2019 @ 10:54am 
https://steamcommunity.com/id/0939634/images/
Why bother conquering cities or settling new ones when Germany and America will happily do it for you?
Illusion17 Dec 10, 2019 @ 11:38am 
Well I just had a horrible time. The 2 cities from the post above both remained free cities and proceeded to start spamming out units which immediately started flooding into my civ. Had to spend around 30 turns (Epic length game) spamming out units to take both cities out. Why on earth do the cities act like barbarians?! They should act like city states at war with their original civ if anything
ChrisMartin Dec 10, 2019 @ 12:25pm 
The trick is to not let two cities loose all its loyalty, at once. Then the two will "support" each other, and you'll never manage to take them with loyalty-pressure. Keep an eye on the pressure gauge, to see if it would flip to you. Or stand ready with units to charge in, when it becomes a free-city.
You got to love Anarchy... Great opportunity for XP to your units, never the less.
donald23 Dec 11, 2019 @ 4:45am 
Originally posted by illusion goddian:
Well I just had a horrible time. The 2 cities from the post above both remained free cities and proceeded to start spamming out units which immediately started flooding into my civ. Had to spend around 30 turns (Epic length game) spamming out units to take both cities out. Why on earth do the cities act like barbarians?! They should act like city states at war with their original civ if anything
That's due to mods you're running. units of free cities in a game without mods stay in their territory. Not barbarian like at all.

Second free cities never stay free cities for ever. Their loyalty drops again, and when they reach 0 after becoming a free city, they join the empire with the most loyalty pressure.
Lemurian1972 Dec 11, 2019 @ 6:56am 
Originally posted by donald23:

Second free cities never stay free cities for ever. Their loyalty drops again, and when they reach 0 after becoming a free city, they join the empire with the most loyalty pressure.

Incorrect. It possible for a free city to stabilize and remain so. I don't remember what their Loy/turn is, but they can make it from their start of 50 to 100 and lock themselves in. With the right shifts between Ages, it's not all that uncommon for the loyalty pressure that pried a weakly held city loose to not last long enough to claim it.
fBz'. Dec 12, 2019 @ 9:21am 
Originally posted by BLACKcOPstRIPPa:
Domination in civ 6 should be removed from game.

In current state it is impossible unless you play on lowest difficulty.

Nonsense, I just won a domination Vic on King difficulty.
BezaoBuilder Dec 12, 2019 @ 10:21am 
The thing is that you have to capture cities fast! Conquer one, then move to the second one, if it flips, sometimes you can ignore it.

About late game units not doing much damage, have you ever heard of aircraft? corps and armies? People seem to care too much for the loyalty mechanic, but sincerely, it is not such a big deal. You have a time limit to capture other cities, and even if you don't beat the time, you can always leave it alone and capture the rest of the cities. It is not the end of the world.

Even if units don't deal enough damage for your taste, every point of damage you make actually makes you deal more damage. If you deal 10 damage to a city in one turn, it won't take 20 turns to capture it (because cities have 200 health, that is different from double of the city strenght) Second of all, don't expect cities to fall in 1-5 turns.

The only people who complain about combat is because they do not know how to properly siege a city. One tip: It is going to take time and you will need ranged units.
Fņŏŕď Dec 16, 2019 @ 4:00pm 
The best way to deal with loyalty is to download the mod that removes this cancerous mechanic.
plaguepenguin Dec 21, 2019 @ 7:57am 
Originally posted by BLACKcOPstRIPPa:
Domination in civ 6 should be removed from game.

In current state it is impossible unless you play on lowest difficulty.

Units late game except giant death robot can't do ♥♥♥♥, so entire armies are not needed anymore, just a couple robots and nothing else matters.

I like electricity and governers being added, world Congress etc lots of cool additions but war being so useless makes civ 6 so boring now.

Only ancient to medieval error are actually worth playing for a fight but why play if you can only okay half the game, then why start a match.

Firaxis please address these issues?
Make actual units, not just nukes and robots viable for late game aggression again please, rise and fall it was done right in gathering Storm they brought down nerf hammer hard on warlike players, making war unviable killed an x.

4x genre
Explore, Expand, Exploit , Exterminate
They removed the Exterminate with changes they made

It's hard to impossible to take a city with walls if all you have are unaided melee and anti-cav units, unless you are an upgrade or two ahead of the defending civ. In that case you can just bull through.

In the early game, the solution is to add the aid of battering rams or siege towers, with catapults to bombards as an adjunct. The latter suffer from vulnerability to attack by the walled city and any ranged units it contains, so their use is dicey, but you can partially counter that vulnerability with promotions that lessen the effect of enemy indirect fire.

In the late game, battering rams and siege towers don't work anymore, but you get a totally new workaround in the form of air power, and the siege artillery line of units gets a standoff capability.

With a standoff range of 3 instead of 2, you don't have to expose your siege artillery units to city or other ranged attacks in order to be able to shoot at the city until the walls are gone. Artillery can use an observation balloon or get a promotion that gives it extra range, and rocket launchers get the extra range even without any promotions or adjunct units.

Once you get air units, bombers are very effective at getting rid of defending walls. I can't say how vulnerable your bombers will be to defending fighters or anti-air artillery, because I've never had an AI civ build such against me. Maybe if I played at a higher difficulty level I would win late enough that they would build fighters or anti-air. At any rate, cities and units without those two types of defense against air units do cause some damage to your bombers, but it's pretty minimal.

Bottom line, taking cities in the late game is quite doable. I do it all the time, and I've only ever built nukes or Giant death Robots to win achievements, not to win any game I've ever played.
plaguepenguin Dec 22, 2019 @ 6:33am 
Originally posted by Scheneighnay:
I've had enemy destroyers sitting inside of a city acting as nearly-invincible AA shutting down bombers. Eventually I just nuked them out.

So far the highest difficulty I've played at is King, and at King I am always at least somewhat technologically ahead by the time the game gets to air units or destroyers, and sometimes very much ahead, so I haven't had a chance to observe that behavior. Do you know how well upgrading to stealth bombers gets you past destroyer AA? Missile cruiser AA?

Bringing up naval units reminds me that I left out of the discussion of dealing with walls the fourth way to deal with them. There's rams&towers, and the siege artillery line, and air power, but there's also the two lines of ranged naval units. Rams&towers are out by the late game, but some combination of the other three makes taking late cities doable without having to resort to nukes or GDRs.
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Date Posted: Dec 9, 2019 @ 9:02am
Posts: 14