How to keep a conquered city? - Loyalty

[Nostra]

So, I'm clearly doing something wrong or forgetting something. I've declared war on Trajan and was able to conquer 2 cities with my military. I was about to attack his capital but the loyalty of the 2 cities had decreased to the point of rebellion (in about 3-5 turns). So the question is simple, how do you keep the cities you've just conquered? I guess making the enemy cede them in diplomacy will help, but this means you can't keep conquering the rest...

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Move governors into the cities.

Promote the diplomat with the abilitity that gives +2 loyalty to all nearby cities and then move her into or near the cities.

Only conquer cities near your own cities, so that the pressure on then keeps them loyal.

Adopt the military policy that gives +2 loyalty to cities with a garrisoned unit, and then garrison a unit in each city you conquer.

And so on.

Depending on the situation, more than one of those may be necessary. If you expect that keeping the city will be impossible, then either don't conquer it or when you do conquer it choose to raze it instead of keeping it.

[Nostra]

So basicly military conquest just got alot harder.

[leandrombraz]

Cede won't help you, don't use cede, it won't affect loyalty or anything useful, it merely allow you to sell the city to another leader.

Another thing you can do is build an entertainment district as close as possible from the cities you gonna conquer and work the Bread and Circus project, which generate loyalty in a 9 tiles range while you're working it. Also try to conquer high populaiton cities first (more population = more loyalty) and conquer fast, possibly even synchronize to take two or more cities on the same turn, this way one city will support the other. Also invest on growth in those cities as soon as you capture it and be sure you have amenities. Happy cities have +3 loyalty, Ecstatic cities have +6 loyalty.

[Khalagar]

Loyalty needs some serious work. You can't "move govenors to cities" when they flip in 3 turns and it takes 5 for a govenor to even settle in. Cities flip WAY too fast after being conquered, you can't even get a foot hold.

Literally all you can do is Raze all the cities in the area and rebuild with your own cities slowly. Once you have a foothold on the continent you can do something, but if it's a totally new continent, you just have to deal with the absolutely ridiculous warmonger penalties

[Madcain]

when you go to war you need to prepare and get policies like the one that adds loyalty per turn for garrisoned unit. this will give you enough time to move in a governor and with those 2 the city should be stable enough for you to conquer the rest.

start with the biggest cities and the capitol as they are the ones pushing loyalty.

[Jimib4158]

ya this is strange.....you have the expansion right?

It is a good little exploit tho.....to not be a warmonger

wipe out all there cities.....take there capital....rpeatitly let it revolt and bring the old civ back to life

Maybe not such a big exploit but a good way to kill off warmonger points

[leandrombraz]

Originally posted by Khalagar:

Loyalty needs some serious work. You can't "move govenors to cities" when they flip in 3 turns and it takes 5 for a govenor to even settle in. Cities flip WAY too fast after being conquered, you can't even get a foot hold.

Literally all you can do is Raze all the cities in the area and rebuild with your own cities slowly. Once you have a foothold on the continent you can do something, but if it's a totally new continent, you just have to deal with the absolutely ridiculous warmonger penalties

The governor loyalty boost works as soon as you move him. You only need to wait for the governor to settle to use its abilities. Use the loyalty lens to see what is actually going on. you will see that you get +8 as soon as you move the governor.

Razing cities is the lazy solution. If you use the mechanics the game offer you can conquer at will and never raze a city. You just need to plan and be more cirurgical, mindless conquest doesn't work anymore.

[Salma Hayek]

You shouldn't raze cities that has a usefull district (anything else than campment unless it's tactically usefull) and/or some buildings and some pop and/or a decent location. Let them rebel if you don't have a choice and take them back later, that's way better use of your prod and time than building settlers and waiting for ever for new cities to get usefull... You can even farm XP and steal builders with free cities so really I don't see the point in razing anything else than a complete garbage city. Loyalty can be an issue but like the other said there are ways to deal with that.

[epicsimian]

I believe having a lot of amenities increases loyalty, but it might be yours vs whoever else is influencing.

Also, the number of the citizens is a factor. If you take a city that had pop 14 and is neighbored by 2 pop 4 cities you may actually start to throw those cities into rebellion.

I just cut a line through another civilizations empire that I was technologically more advanced than, not immediately neighboring, and I already had 8 cities on the other edge of the continent. The first 2 cities were positive loyalty without me having to do anything and were full loyalty in a few turns. The 3rd city was flat 0 loyalty before I moved my governor in and I'm literally surrounded on 3 sides by the nation of the city I'm occupying. This was on emperor difficulty.

Not only that but when I took the 3rd city, the first city that I had bypassed on my way inwards started rebelling against the nation that I was attacking.

At the time that I had taken the 3rd city I had reduced their amenities to 2 luxuries (and had captured their entertainment complex) and they still had 6 cities left. Also, I took their highest population cities first.

So my theory is that if I'm positive amenities and the nearest influencing cities are negative amenities then I can actually influence them into rebellion even though I'm occupying their nation's city. The speed at which they rebel based on the pop of my cities vs theirs.

There could be other factors like being more culturally or technologically advanced that certainly would've been applicable in my scenario.

Hope this helps, it also doesn't hurt to raze a few of their cities if you don't like their placement before you take 1 that you intend to keep.

[leandrombraz]

Originally posted by epicsimian:

I believe having a lot of amenities increases loyalty, but it might be yours vs whoever else is influencing.

Also, the number of the citizens is a factor. If you take a city that had pop 14 and is neighbored by 2 pop 4 cities you may actually start to throw those cities into rebellion.

I just cut a line through another civilizations empire that I was technologically more advanced than, not immediately neighboring, and I already had 8 cities on the other edge of the continent. The first 2 cities were positive loyalty without me having to do anything and were full loyalty in a few turns. The 3rd city was flat 0 loyalty before I moved my governor in and I'm literally surrounded on 3 sides by the nation of the city I'm occupying. This was on emperor difficulty.

Not only that but when I took the 3rd city, the first city that I had bypassed on my way inwards started rebelling against the nation that I was attacking.

At the time that I had taken the 3rd city I had reduced their amenities to 2 luxuries (and had captured their entertainment complex) and they still had 6 cities left. Also, I took their highest population cities first.

So my theory is that if I'm positive amenities and the nearest influencing cities are negative amenities then I can actually influence them into rebellion even though I'm occupying their nation's city. The speed at which they rebel based on the pop of my cities vs theirs.

There could be other factors like being more culturally or technologically advanced that certainly would've been applicable in my scenario.

Hope this helps, it also doesn't hurt to raze a few of their cities if you don't like their placement before you take 1 that you intend to keep.

Only loyalty from population affect the cities of other civs, also loyalty from abilities that specifically say that it affect other civs cities. Loyalty from your happiness affect only your cities, loyalty from their happiness will affect only their cities. Making them unhappy will help to force their cities to rebel, making your cities happy will help to stop yours from rebelling.

How advanced you're at culture or tech doesn't directly affect loyalty, aside from unlocking new stuff that affect loyalty, like policies and govenor titles.

[Nostra]

Originally posted by Salma Hayek:

You shouldn't raze cities that has a usefull district (anything else than campment unless it's tactically usefull) and/or some buildings and some pop and/or a decent location. Let them rebel if you don't have a choice and take them back later, that's way better use of your prod and time than building settlers and waiting for ever for new cities to get usefull... You can even farm XP and steal builders with free cities so really I don't see the point in razing anything else than a complete garbage city. Loyalty can be an issue but like the other said there are ways to deal with that.

I always feel dirty when taking over other cities :) So if it has no strategical value or nice wonders or something really valuable, I raze to the ground!

[Pain]

I am facing the same issues as the original post.
Currently, my situation is that I am more technologically advanced than trajan, but his score is higher than mine, so I decided to take his cities, as I am way stronger than him. The problem is that his cities are not near enough to be influenced by my cities. The moment I capture one of his cities, it is set to rebel in 3 turns. Governors take FIVE turns to get set up.Even if the effect of assigning a governor is instant, the loyalty bonus of the governor would not have been enough to balance out the loyalty loss I was getting. It is around -20 to -30 per turn.
This is because the city I conquered is surrounded by the rest of Trajan's cities. There is just too much loyalty loss. And yes I checked the law that gives loyalty bonus for garisonned troops, but that bonus is insignificant really, compared to the rate at which loyalty is being lost.

I am strong enough to conquer all his cities with ease, yet I can't seem to find a way to keep any of them. Could someone advise me how to handle this situation. Invasion just doesnt seem enjoyable anymore after this expansion. I might just switch back to pre expansion at this rate, unless I figure out how to handle this in a non tedious manner

[Brakiros]

It needs work as the AI isn't capable of utilising loyalty well, they just allow their own cities to rebel without even trying to stop it by moving in governors most of the time. But the loyalty does add a different dimension to game play.

[Salma Hayek]

Originally posted by Buttsecks:

I am facing the same issues as the original post.
Currently, my situation is that I am more technologically advanced than trajan, but his score is higher than mine, so I decided to take his cities, as I am way stronger than him. The problem is that his cities are not near enough to be influenced by my cities. The moment I capture one of his cities, it is set to rebel in 3 turns. Governors take FIVE turns to get set up.Even if the effect of assigning a governor is instant, the loyalty bonus of the governor would not have been enough to balance out the loyalty loss I was getting. It is around -20 to -30 per turn.
This is because the city I conquered is surrounded by the rest of Trajan's cities. There is just too much loyalty loss. And yes I checked the law that gives loyalty bonus for garisonned troops, but that bonus is insignificant really, compared to the rate at which loyalty is being lost.

I am strong enough to conquer all his cities with ease, yet I can't seem to find a way to keep any of them. Could someone advise me how to handle this situation. Invasion just doesnt seem enjoyable anymore after this expansion. I might just switch back to pre expansion at this rate, unless I figure out how to handle this in a non tedious manner

The game is still too easy and you complain about a little challenge, I mean, come on... There are a lot of solutions, first you should generally attack near your own cities, and in your case you can take the cities, let them rebel and take them back later once you capture Rome which should seriously alter the loyalty pressure.

[BladeSe7en [ICON_RESOURCE_FURS]]

Originally posted by Khalagar:

Loyalty needs some serious work. You can't "move govenors to cities" when they flip in 3 turns and it takes 5 for a govenor to even settle in. Cities flip WAY too fast after being conquered, you can't even get a foot hold.

Literally all you can do is Raze all the cities in the area and rebuild with your own cities slowly. Once you have a foothold on the continent you can do something, but if it's a totally new continent, you just have to deal with the absolutely ridiculous warmonger penalties

The loyalty pressure from a govenor is immediate when you place them. But to use any of thier other abilities they must be established for 3-5 turns