HUGE HUGE Bug with great prophets and religion

[cANe]

In my current game I'm stuck with 4/5 religions. England + Japan declared war on me which led me to swiftly destroying England. However England had a Great prophet she had not used which also disappeared when she died which means that I can't generate any great prophets anymore because all 5 have been claimed yet I'm stuck on 4/5 religions.

Can't believe these devs are so clowny that they missed out on a huge thing like this.

[Leon Declis]

Well, if Jesus or Buddha got hit by a cart when they were a boy and died, then that religion simply never happened. So, yeah, that is one less religion in the world. Seems quite realistic.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Before England was destroyed: Player cannot found religion because all Great Prophets have been taken by other civilizations.

After England was destroyed: Player cannot found religion because all Great Prophets have been taken by other civilizations.

There was no actual change in the OP's ability to generate a Great Prophet as a result of England's unused Great Prophet being eliminated.

By the way, this situation (not enough Great Prophets in the game to fill every available religion slot) can also arise if Arabia is in the game but is eliminated before they found a religion. The last Great Prophet is reserved for them, even if they can never claim it.

These are not bugs or even design flaws; they are just examples of those interesting things that can happen in unusual situations.

[Molybdane]

People are missing the point of OP. The number of religions (that can be founded) is linked to the number of players, in this case, 8 player, 5 religions.

The game enforces this limit by hard-limiting the number of Great Prophets that can be generated to the required number.

OP describes a situation in which this kind of hard-limiting doesn't work.

Instead, the game should hard-limit the number of religions founded; you can get as many Great Prophets as you like, technically, but only 5 religions can be founded. That way, if 5 Prophets had appeared, but only 4 were popped for a religion, players could generate another one to pop the 5th religion.

My guess is that Firaxis limited the number of Great Prophets instead because the AI wouldn't be able to handle the limbo in between the final probet being generated and the final religion being founded.

Also, this is not the same as one religion being wiped out through war or conversion. That religion had its chance, however remote.

[nozwizard]

lets think opposite way.
and lets assume i took a prophet. didnt use it. and pick another one. aaaand another one. if the prophet doesnt limited as in religion limit number. i would end up bunch of them.

so what will i do all those prophets. kill a religion of other civs (with war, holy war etc). and pop. another religion for me. many more options for me. (bcz i have more unused not limited acc to religion limit). may be i should extend my religion like in civ V. with those extra prophets.

there will be some faulty results also. (in religion tab it will be more than religion limit.
lets assume this is prophibited with noone can found any new religion. in this case i would kill majority religion owner civ. and pop my prophet as that religion founder. and claim all those religion cities as my own religion follower.

my conclution, its good to limit prophet amount with religion amount. and i think this is not a bug or fault but, most logical way to solve issues. that religion prematurely died as in OP post. its slot is used. so as a result no needed any more religion or prophet.

[SamBC]

Originally posted by Deriveur:

Originally posted by paugus:

Yeah, we do know. The game allowed for five great prophets to be generated, five great prophets were generated, the last one disappeared because he killed off the Civ that owned it. There's not really a mystery here.

If you can't create a new Religion with Stonehenge, then it *could* be a bug.

If Stonehenge is built with no great prophets left, you don't get a prophet.

[SamBC]

You can also end up in this position if it takes too long to found all the religions, so that when a prophet is generated you're in an era where there's no more prophets available - no prophets in the pool due to them being out of date, so no prophet, no religion can be founded.

[killemall]

Originally posted by War Pig:

It’s unfortunate to find out how the game works *after* you’ve made that move you can’t undo, but that’s how games work. There’s a set of rules that define how that world works and you have to learn them to thrive in that environment. I would place this in the “less than optimal design” category rather than a bug.

I understand that, but wouldn't you think you would be able to capture those great people after capturing England's last city? Just curious.

[War Pig]

Originally posted by killemall:

Originally posted by War Pig:

It’s unfortunate to find out how the game works *after* you’ve made that move you can’t undo, but that’s how games work. There’s a set of rules that define how that world works and you have to learn them to thrive in that environment. I would place this in the “less than optimal design” category rather than a bug.

I understand that, but wouldn't you think you would be able to capture those great people after capturing England's last city? Just curious. :emocompy:

Yeah, there’s a lot of things they could do to improve gameplay like that. Here’s another quirky thing I learned the hard way: Go to capture a settler with one of your units, you capture it... go to capture a settler with a unit that has an attached great general and the settler just disappears. They could at least disallow the move until you’ve detached the great general IMO. I could code up things like that all day, but then, I don’t work for them.

[Awen]

Originally posted by Wall of Light:

If anything, this is just a sign that the Great Prophet system is unnecessary. It's an awkward formality for a unit you use once per game.

Agreed. Rather than halting them, you should still be able to obtain them after all religions have been founded as some sort of uber apostle, maybe has ability to spread religion to multiple cities at once, like what happens when you kill a religious unit with a military unit.

[ExpendableGrunt]

Originally posted by Molybdane:

Instead, the game should hard-limit the number of religions founded; you can get as many Great Prophets as you like, technically, but only 5 religions can be founded. That way, if 5 Prophets had appeared, but only 4 were popped for a religion, players could generate another one to pop the 5th religion.

I agree with this. Civ V had a perfectly fine Great Prophet system that would have worked perfectly in Civ VI. They changed it to a different system for no good reason, and ended up with something inferior.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by ExpendableGrunt:

Originally posted by Molybdane:

Instead, the game should hard-limit the number of religions founded; you can get as many Great Prophets as you like, technically, but only 5 religions can be founded. That way, if 5 Prophets had appeared, but only 4 were popped for a religion, players could generate another one to pop the 5th religion.

I agree with this. Civ V had a perfectly fine Great Prophet system that would have worked perfectly in Civ VI. They changed it to a different system for no good reason, and ended up with something inferior.

Religion was ridiculous in Civ V due to the Great Prophet system. There was no reasonable way to convert another civ other than deleting their religion with Prophets because so much pressure would build up that missionaries were useless. Furthermore, they were absurdly good at accomplishing that task, and in VI they already nerfed the Apostle promotion that made them act like V Prophets.

[ExpendableGrunt]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Religion was ridiculous in Civ V due to the Great Prophet system. There was no reasonable way to convert another civ other than deleting their religion with Prophets because so much pressure would build up that missionaries were useless. Furthermore, they were absurdly good at accomplishing that task, and in VI they already nerfed the Apostle promotion that made them act like V Prophets.

I don't consider cities exerting religious pressure to be part of the Great Prophet system, rather the overall Religion system. But that's just semantics. Personally, I'm glad to see that component gone.