Amanitore, Mansa Musa obese?

[Marva]

Why are these two this way? I've never seen or heard anything from historical sources to attest to them being obese. They look like some of the cheese-steak lovers we had back home in Philadelphia. Isn't it something of an insult to go out of one's way to portray a historical leader this way?

[gimmethegepgun]

Literally the first depiction on Mansa Musa's wiki page is a depiction of him being fat.

[Elliott]

Most leaders we dont have accurate knowledge of how they looked I'm guessing they went with what they did to give the characters some variety.

Amanitore happens to be one of my favourite leaders in the game but eye of the beholder and all that I guess.

[Marva]

gimmethegepgun の投稿を引用：

Literally the first depiction on Mansa Musa's wiki page is a depiction of him being fat.

That depicts a small, frail man with a belly. Basically, Nzinga. That's no anything like what we see in-game.

Moreover, we have plenty more art pieces depicting him being fit (or, at the very least, ordinary). Why use this one as inspiration?

Elliott の投稿を引用：

Most leaders we dont have accurate knowledge of how they looked I'm guessing they went with what they did to give the characters some variety.

Amanitore happens to be one of my favourite leaders in the game but eye of the beholder and all that I guess.

Amanitore is a black woman in East African garb. That's already a notable step away from the norm. Just don't doll her up like Cleo and she's unique.

I like the way the Nubian civ is designed, just not a fan of historical figures being represented this way.

[weraptor]

If we are to believe that Amanitore was Nubian, she was also black. Furthermore, the devs went with the fatter version as a symbol of fertility and abundance.

[MonkeyWarlord]

wasn't Victoria fat in real life? She seems pretty slim in the game. Maybe that's just young Victoria?

[weraptor]

Young Vicky was pretty slim most of life, like Kristina, she got fat towards the elderly age.

[Marva]

weraptor の投稿を引用：

If we are to believe that Amanitore was Nubian, she was also black. Furthermore, the devs went with the fatter version as a symbol of fertility and abundance.

I wasn't saying she wasn't black. Also, while that may have been a symbol of fertility in her time, it's a symbol of impulsiveness in ours, and we don't have much of a reason to believe she had this much weight to begin with.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Sometimes people are obese. It would be more problematic to never depict any leader as obese - implying that such people are incapable or unworthy of leadership. Having a variety of body types represented among the game's leaders is a good way to avoid making that inaccurate implication.

[Marva]

As I understand it, the intention with Civ 6 was to celebrate leaders and history. Making some of them fat as a sort of "fat people can lead, too" message seems out-of-place at the very least.

Bah. Whatever. It is what it is. People will probably mod it out at some point.

[gimmethegepgun]

In history, being fat was a sign of wealth since you could afford to be fat.

[weraptor]

yes, being (very) chubby was an ideal of beauty for ages.

[Elliott]

Wall of Light の投稿を引用：

As I understand it, the intention with Civ 6 was to celebrate leaders and history. Making some of them fat as a sort of "fat people can lead, too" message seems out-of-place at the very least.

Bah. Whatever. It is what it is. People will probably mod it out at some point.

Its not 'fat people can lead too' fat people have led many times along with the short, lanky, crooked and just about anyone else.

It would be a damn shame if every leader looked like Hollywood got to cast them I know thats probably not what you are advocating for but its the unfortunate reality for a lot of media its nice to see characters in all sorts of shapes.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Wall of Light の投稿を引用：

As I understand it, the intention with Civ 6 was to celebrate leaders and history. Making some of them fat as a sort of "fat people can lead, too" message seems out-of-place at the very least.

They didn't arbitrarily make some leaders fat to send a message. Rather, they depicted a variety of body types because historically (as well as currently) humans come in a variety of body types. My point was that making none of the leaders obese would have been bizarre, since that is not realistic or historically accurate. Sorry if my wording was unclear.

Wall of Light の投稿を引用：

People will probably mod it out at some point.

The fact that you would think that this would be necessary, or a productive use of anyone's time, is strange to me. Of course, you are free to have whatever opinion you want.

[Marva]

Elliott の投稿を引用：

Wall of Light の投稿を引用：

As I understand it, the intention with Civ 6 was to celebrate leaders and history. Making some of them fat as a sort of "fat people can lead, too" message seems out-of-place at the very least.

Bah. Whatever. It is what it is. People will probably mod it out at some point.

Its not 'fat people can lead too' fat people have led many times along with the short, lanky, crooked and just about anyone else.

It would be a damn shame if every leader looked like Hollywood got to cast them I know thats probably not what you are advocating for but its the unfortunate reality for a lot of media its nice to see characters in all sorts of shapes.

That's what I meant with "fat people can lead, too". However, I can understand why you took it that way.

tempest.of.emptiness の投稿を引用：

Wall of Light の投稿を引用：

As I understand it, the intention with Civ 6 was to celebrate leaders and history. Making some of them fat as a sort of "fat people can lead, too" message seems out-of-place at the very least.

They didn't arbitrarily make some leaders fat to send a message. Rather, they depicted a variety of body types because historically (as well as currently) humans come in a variety of body types. My point was that making none of the leaders obese would have been bizarre, since that is not realistic or historically accurate. Sorry if my wording was unclear.


I don't consider one painting implying Mansa has a belly to be enough justification for this. Again, it doesn't matter in the end. They made him big in the game, and they're likely not going to change it.

Wall of Light の投稿を引用：

People will probably mod it out at some point.

The fact that you would think that this would be necessary, or a productive use of anyone's time, is strange to me. Of course, you are free to have whatever opinion you want.

People nowadays make mods for just about anything and everything. In this game's steam workshop, you find a mod that changes T.Roosevelt's name from "Teddy" to "Theodore" just because he wasn't fond of the name. The replacement would likely just be a still picture of Mansa Musa, but that counts.

[Basil's Kite]

Marva の投稿を引用：

Why are these two this way? I've never seen or heard anything from historical sources to attest to them being obese. They look like some of the cheese-steak lovers we had back home in Philadelphia. Isn't it something of an insult to go out of one's way to portray a historical leader this way?

Marva, sorry for necroing this thread but I arrived here by googling the same question you're asking about Mansa Musa. While my search for any mention of Musa's physique yielded no results, I arrived at a conclusion that I believe makes sense.

Wealth is often conflated with gluttony. Obesity happens to be a great way to portray both of those things physically. This dude, even by today's measure, was incredibly wealthy. Musa was a true testament to Africa and West Asia's wealth of natural resources.

Side note; medieval monarchs have often been portrayed as fat.. This isn't without good reason. These people were eating lots of meats, fruits, and bread while the peasants ate vegetables and grains. They were drinking lots of beer, wine, and mead. Outside of walking and hunting, these people wouldn't have been getting much exercise. Most of their time was relegated to resolving and discussing the affairs of their kingdoms and other kingly ♥♥♥♥.